Posted on 07/23/2019 5:26:09 AM PDT by Cronos
I grew up in church culture. Most of what I recall from those early childhood and teenage years bring memories of good things. People genuinely taught me that loving Jesus matters more than anything else in the world. The world, after all, is corrupt and the place we truly long for is far, far away – heaven. So we are to love Jesus and hate the world.
Now, this is not hatred toward the people on earth. I did not grow up in a church culture that taught that we ought to tell outsiders how much they suck, but that this “world is not my home, I’m just a passin’ through.”
World and physicality = bad.
Jesus and spiritual bliss in a distant heaven = goal of the game.
This distinction came with a subset of beliefs about the destiny of God’s world. Eventually this planet would be destroyed and we Christians would “fly away” to heaven at the rapture of the church. Certain Christians understood the timing of the rapture as it corresponds to the book of Revelation differently than others, but no one ever denied the imminent return of Jesus to evacuate the church out of earth.
What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong. You see, the Bible flows from Creation (Gen 1-2) to Renewed Creation (Rev 21-22). This is the narrative of Scripture. Nothing in the text (if read in its proper context) alludes to the actual complete destruction of the planet. This world’s worth to the Creator runs deep and because of this, the world as a whole ought to be intrinsically valuable to us.
Physical/earthly realities such as social injustice, violence, hunger, preventable sickness, and the destruction of nature are invitations to the church of Jesus to get our hands dirty and proclaim that this world matters (even in its broken state)! Christ will complete creation upon his return, uniting heaven and earth for the life of the age to come!
The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny? Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky [see appendix below!].
In this passage, Paul borrows two specific images from the Old Testament that would have been familiar to Jewish converts and Gentiles who were familiarizing themselves with the Hebrew tradition. The first of these that Paul employs in the text has to do with Moses who comes down from Mount Sinai with the Law with the great blast of the trumpet.
The second image is taken from Daniel chapter 7 where the “one like the son of man” (or “human being” or “The Human One”) and the community he represents is vindicated over the enemies of the people of God. Clouds here symbolize the power and authoritative judgement of God about the rescue of his people. This idea now seems to be applied to Christians who are facing various forms of persecution.
Finally, there is a third image in the text that comes from outside of the canonical context. This is the image of an emperor who visits a city. The people of that region would have gone out to meet him to usher him into their home in a royal procession out in the open air. This, Paul seems to apply to the church who will usher in their King into the new creation.***
Rapture, as it is popularly understood, is nowhere to be found in this “rapture” passage. Christ will return to resurrect, to purge, to heal, and to establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.
The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will be Good News! “‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4). Surely we cannot erase judgment from the picture, but the hope is that those in Christ will be raised to eternal life and everything that is wrong with this world will be made right.
This world renewed is going to be our home for eternity, and we have the opportunity to reflect that future in our present. Rapture invites us to escape this world: the last thing that Jesus would have ever taught! “On earth as in heaven” is what he said, not “in heaven away from the earth!” Our world’s future is hopeful. Let’s tell that story and not the escapist narratives that many of us grew up with.
[Kurt Note: This article is an adaptation from various pieces that are part of my “rapture” category.]
—————————————————————————————————
Below is a Word Study that I did based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17. What is interesting to me is how it reinforced my belief that the “rapture” as it is popularly understood (Jesus secretly returns to extract believers from earth to heaven for eternity) is completely unwarranted. If you choose to follow the logic below, you will know why 🙂
The word underlying “air” in 1 Thessalonians 4.17 is the Greek word “ἀήρ” (Strong’s: #109).
The usage of ἀήρ in the New Testament by verse:
Acts 22:23
…εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
…dust into the air,
1Co 9:26
…ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
…one that beateth the air:
1Co 14:9
…γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
…shall speak into the air.
Eph 2:2
…ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
…power of the air, the spirit that…
1Th 4:17
…κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
…the Lord in the air: and so shall…
Rev 9:2
…καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
…sun and the air were darkened by…
Rev 16:17
…ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
…vial into the air; and there came…
1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]
After surveying the above seven occurrences, it is clear that the definition is simply the area of unseen space in our atmosphere. Below, the meaning in its various usages are explained:
ἀήρ (aēr, 109), ἀέρος, ὁ, (ἄημι, ἄω, [cf. ἄνεμος, init.]), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Hom. Il. 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts xxii. 23; 1 Th. iv. 17; Rev. ix. 2, xvi. 17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Eph. ii. 2 signifies “the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air”, i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Mey. ad loc.; [B. D. Am. ed. s. v. Air; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139 sq.]). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Hom. Il. 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polyb. 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv. to σκότος,— the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Eph. 1. c. ἀέρα δέρειν (cf. verberat ictibus auras, Verg. Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Co. ix. 26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) “to speak into the air” i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Co. xiv. 9.*[2]
Although ἀήρ is not a word that is frequent in the New Testament, it is interesting to note that there is only one other word that is translated into English as “air.” The Greek οὐρανός has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ. Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:
1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
- a. the universe, the world
- b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
- c. the sidereal or starry heavens
2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[3]
It seems that the difference between these two words will prove to be significant. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218). In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.
In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christ-followers who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.
Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power / authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.
Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways; mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity. There are several problems with this approach (too numerous to look at for this word study). The current word study exposes one of the fallacies in this interpretive scheme.
Had the Apostle wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions (as indicated above), would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the “air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what this word study has discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices in place without giving the wrong impression, he chose to use ἀήρ to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world; but rather being part of its redemptive process. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm cosmological dualism.
There is no dispute of how ἀήρ is to be translated from Greek into English among the translations. In every version that was checked (ESV, KJV, NIV, and TNIV) this word is translated as “air.”
After consulting the “Easton Bible Dictionary” we find that this word study’s findings about the meaning of the word ἀήρ is consistent and verified. It states: “The atmosphere, as opposed to the higher regions of the sky (1Th_4:17; Rev_9:2; Rev_16:17).”[4] This is also confirmed by the UBS Greek Dictionary: “air; ethereal region above the earth, space.”[5]
***N. T. Wright, “Farewell to Rapture,” Biblical Review (August 2001). http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm (accessed October, 2009).
[1]http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=109&version=nas
[2] http://www.greekbiblestudy.org/gnt/greekWordStudy.do?id=100095&greek=false
[3] http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3772&version=nas
[4] See: Easton Bible Dictionary. Available Online at: http://refbible.com/a/air.htm
[5] The Greek New Testament With Greek-English Dictionary by B. Aland (Editor), K. Aland (Editor), J. Karavidopoulos (Editor), B. M. Metzger (Editor), C. M. Martini (Editor)
Your website and garbage certainly is - not to mention you.
Good grief! You can’t even get the dispensations right!
The Temple in Revelation is the Lord Himself in the New Jerusalem - you are way off!
A 3rd Temple (Daniel 9:27) will be built and desecrated. Nero and Titus didn’t desecrate the 2nd Temple that was destroyed in 70.
This is such an amateur discussion with you, it’s no longer even worth wasting anybody’s time. Even going so far as to site your source that calls Jesus (King of Kings) a drunk! Absurd! (Refer to SaveFerris’s post in 340).
My last response to your nonsense is this so others can see how childish & ignorant you are in the Holy Word of God:
Proverbs 26:4-5
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Or you will also be like him.
5 Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.
We’re done here!!
This guy might as well be a pagan. His mocking and use of a website that states Christ is drunk is astounding.
He’ll get his reward soon enough...
Yeah, I’m done with this thread of deception from a website of obvious mockers.
This thread should have been deleted or at least locked.
In Matthew 24:3 the disciples asked Jesus this question.
“Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
It's asking about His Second Coming. The disciples asked about THAT time. bout FUTURE events.
So that sets the stage for the rest of Matthew 24. Jesus is answering THAT question, the question related to His Second Coming.
The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was not the Second Coming of Christ. That is in the future yet. It could not be what Jesus was talking about because it's not part of the Second Coming.
Nor did that time see wars and earthquakes and famines of the degree that He indicated.
The gospel had not been proclaimed to the whole world yet, and even now has still not.
The fig tree symbolizes Israel and Jesus said that the lesson of the fig tree is that when it puts out its shoots, you know that summer is near, so that hen they saw those signs He mentioned, then His coming is near.
Jesus did not return in 70 AD.
So these signs and their fulfillment must have yet to happen.
Now comes the verse that everyone looking to deny the rapture and tribulation messes up.
Jesus says this....."Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
So in the midst of this entire discourse on the Tribulation, the end times, and His Second Coming, all of a sudden we're supposed to think that Jesus switches back to talking about the present generation for ONE sentence, and then goes back to discussing future events related to His Second Coming?
Hardly...... It makes no sense.
The *this generation* means the generation that is alive when those things begin and occur, just before the Second Coming of Jesus.
If Jesus meant the generation to which He was talking was going to be the ones to see those signs and His Second Coming, and we know the prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 AD as Jesus did not return then, that would then mean Jesus must be considered a false prophet.
THAT'S a keeper.
No, it is not!
Aside from a few oddballs, not a person I know or have heard preach has ever thought they knew exactly when.
Matter of fact, when someone makes that claim, NOBODY I know believes him.
Whenever anyone I know who believes in the rapture hears someone claim they know the exact time, they are immediately branded as a cultist.
1 And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple.-- They ask him when shall the temple be destroyed.
2 And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed.
3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world?
He prophesied that it would happen in their generation (in the next 40 years) - and he was true. He was crucified around AD 30 and the temple was destroyed in AD 69-70
That is why in Matthew 24:16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains —> the Christians in Jerusalem remembered these words and fled to Pellas in the mountains around Jerusalem
And that's why Jesus in MAtthew 23:29-38 -- the chapter before the one you quoted, says
Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites.... Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets... Truly I say to you, All this will come upon this generation.This is the significance of the second coming where Jerusalem, the harlot-city referred to in the book of the Apocalypse, is judged - the "coming" being the point of Judgement echoing Isaiah 19:1 "Behold the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt; and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence"
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets... Behold your house is forsaken and desolate
Remember also that the Second Coming terminology relates to Matthew 13 where the wicked are burnt up
Christ did come back spiritually where the 1000 year reign is the age of christianity - the 1000 number, just as the numbers 6 and 7 which are sprinkled through the book of the Apocalypse is symbolic.
your dispensations that you put up is a 19th century invention by John Nelson Darby. It’s, to put it simply, non-biblical nonsense.
The Temple spoken of in the book of the apocalypse is Jesus
John 2:21 But he spoke of the temple of his body.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein. For the Lord God Almighty is the temple thereof, and the Lamb.
Whether the modern-day Jews (descendents of the Pharisees and I don’t mean that in a pejorative sense - we are spiritual descendents of the Christ-following Jews) rebuild the physical Temple or not, is irrelevant to Christ’s plan — the true temple that is the Lamb, God Jesus is already here
If you say “The Temple in Revelation is the Lord Himself in the New Jerusalem - you are way off!” — it shows that you haven’t read the book of the Apocalypse well enough — Apocalypse 21:22 says clearly “And I saw no temple therein. For the Lord God Almighty is the temple thereof, and the Lamb.”
Daniel 9 prophesies JESUS's coming -- Daniel 9:24-26 is where we find it. It says: "Listen, and understand. Seven sevens plus sixty-two sevens will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler – the Messiah – comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the distressing times. After this period of sixty-two sevens, the Messiah will be killed…"
So let’s do the math on that: first, it says “Seven sevens plus sixty-two sevens” will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah dies. So that’s 49 (7x7) plus 434 (62x7) = 483 years.
Fortunately, it later tells us when to start the countdown. Nehemiah 2:1-6 states that King Artaxerxes of Persia gave the order in his “twentieth year”, which was 445 BC, according to Britannica (sources at end), in "the month of Nisan" (the Hebrew month corresponding to our March and April).
So, knowing this, we can calculate exactly when it’s saying the Messiah would die. From the command being given to rebuild Jerusalem to the death of the Messiah is 483 years. 483 years after 445 BC would get us 38 AD, but we need to convert the date, as the calendar Daniel was using was slightly different from ours.
Our calendar has 365.25 days, while the Babylonian one Daniel was using had 360 days.
The temple referred to in Daniel 9:27 is the second temple (you do realize that was written before the building of the 2nd temple, right?) being destroyed by the 10th Legion in 69 AD
you, war_crim haven't read the bible well to make such errors
So, my last response to your nonsense, Roman_WC is this so others can see how childish & ignorant you are in the Holy Word of God:
Proverbs 26:4-5
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Or you will also be like him.
5 Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.
We’re done here!!
I really urge you to throw out your non-biblical left behind Rapture - and listen to Jesus who Himself prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem
And it was only called the Roman Church after the 16th century.
And finally, it never had Jerusalem
Sorry, but you are mixing up a lot of things and getting them wrong
The Ottoman Empire persecuted Jews and Christians -- whatever makes you think they didn't?
The neo-Assyrian empire didn't occupy the Caucasus - the Georgian tribes (Kartvelians) along with the ancestors of the Abkhaz and Circassians were opposing them and the Assyrians had no way to get near the foothills
The descendents of those lost tribes are Iraqis and iranians -- btw, both of these as well as Israelis, Arabs, Indians, Berbers are all "Caucasians" in the debunked "races" system
The Caucasian people -- like the Chechens - aren't Israelites and have language families unlike the Semitic and genetics that are definitely not related to Semites. Btw, most europeans don't have semitic genes either
It was considered a continuation of the dominiate after Romulus Augustus
Also the empire of Charlemagne fell apart and was reconnected by the Ottonian dynasty in the 10th century
The Holy Roman Empire you refer to was never anywhere near Jerusalem, so it puts fail to you point
It was also an empire that ENDED in 1806 -- you do know that, don't you? That the HRE ended in 1806?
It is a recent invention, from the 19th century. It’s also biblically incorrect and when it says that Jesus didn’t predict the destruction of Old Jerusalem and the creation of the New Jerusalem, the spiritual Jerusalem that is Christianity, it is blasphemous
I have no idea where you come up with all of these false ideas
the ottoman empire never even began until 1299.
I don’t mind discussing with some one who is serious but you are
not serious at all and it is just a waste of time.
I Have been reading your comments as I believe you do know a little
of the Bible but it obviously ends with the destruction of Jerusalem
So any comments from here on will be ignored.
Good day professor.
What false ideas?
1. The Empire of Charlemagne was never referred to as the “Holy Roman Empire” — it was called initially the Frankish Empire, then with Charles Magne’s coronation as the Roman empire — never the “Holy” Roman Empire
It was considered a continuation of the dominiate after Romulus Augustus
2. the empire of Charlemagne fell apart and was reconnected by the Ottonian dynasty in the 10th century
3. The Holy Roman Empire you refer to was never anywhere near Jerusalem
4. It was also an empire that ENDED in 1806 — you do know that, don’t you? That the HRE ended in 1806?
Which one of these facts do you dispute?
And the Ottoman Empire starts in the 13th century - about the same time the Ottonian empire starts being called and calling itself the Holy Roman Empire - to distinguish itself from the short-lived Latin Empire of the East
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.