Are Mormons Christians? (Additional Footage) - Tim Conway

Grace Community Church ^ | 6/8/2013 | Tim Conway

[OddLane]

An exploration of the doctrine of the Church of Latter day Saints by Tim Conway.

[Elsie]

From 86 to 454 and no comments?

Boy; you must be enjoying Spring over there!

[Elsie]

Not quite and why are you trying to be misleading and deceitful on this?

If you are going to answer then please, for the sake of your own cause, tell the truth and don’t deceitful.

Weren’t the Lamanites supposed to be descendants of Father Lehi too?

They were apostate good followers of Jesus around 200 AD until the great division around 231 AD

with the Nephites being the righteous ones, but then of course the Nephites became even more wicked

so that’s why they got to be destroyed at that final battle at Cumorah, except a few like Moroni -

the great prophet/historian who then as an “omnipotent resurrected angel” visits Joseph Smith 1823-1827

and thus we get the legacy ideas in Mormonism about the origins of the Native Americans.

 

 

I don't think the MILLIONS killed were even noticed up tread!

[Elsie]

The honest truth is that it would be nice IMO if the Mormon Church could be God’s one true Church.

Then we could go to some Celestial Kingdom and be with friends/family forever with certainty if we are good Mormons in this life.

 

 

Do any Mormons EVER peak behind the curtain; to see how this FORVER family is supposed to work?

 

Doesn't ANY of them realize that if ANY of them are NOT Temple Worthy then their 'forever' is going to have an AWFUL lot of Prots and Catholics hanging around!

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Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

 To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins.

For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50–70; 76:92–96.

 

https://www.lds.org/topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng

 

 

 

[Elsie]

...beware of people who will be Mormons that claim its full of lies.

Who; when pressed; cannot produce any!

[Elsie]

Peek!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Mormonic Verses Placemarker

[Mark17]

From 86 to 454 and no comments?

Boy; you must be enjoying Spring over there!

Actually, it was 452. I didn’t know the thread was here, until someone pinged me to it. 😁
Actually, it’s not spring. It’s dead in the middle of summer, and it’s HOT Summer time here, is April and May. I know it’s strange, but that is reality. By June, it will be cooling off. 👍

[Degaston]

......beware of people who will be Mormons that claim its full of lies.

...Who; when pressed; cannot produce any!

If this particular Mormon who has corresponded with me on this thread or any others do actually find any issues with the “CES Letter” then I will personally analyze them thoroughly and then personally follow up as needed with Mr. Jeremy Runnels (even if I must stalk him at his home) to try to have it handled with complete honesty. Its a matter of integrity for me.

I appreciate you sending me those links/info about the Mormon religion. But it seems like you lack the “gift of discernment” too ;) Plus my posting history on FreeRepublic ought to be quite telling for anyone. Considering how I have 10 siblings and both parents that are devout Mormons & I myself served a mission, graduated from BYU, spent 4 years as a Counselor in Bishoprics/Branch Presidencies, taught at the MTC, etc. then I’ve got some ideas about this Church. I was ordained a High Priest on my 28th birthday in conjunction with being set apart in the Bishopric. Why nobody in the congregations I’ve preached sermons has ever left that congregation to go join a LDS congregation is because every sermon I preached was to a LDS congregation.

Another thing about me - today May 1, 2019 is my 30th anniversary of becoming an employee at Mormon Church headquarters. I had just wrapped up my Sophomore year of college at BYU and got an internship doing computer programming for the Data Processing group of the Physical Facilities department. I worked on the 11th floor of the Church Office Building right across the hall from the Managing Director of the department - Fred Baker. He always had Mormon General Authorities coming in/out of his office for meetings, especially Henry B. Eyring. I looked like I was 14-15 years old then so I stuck out like a sore thumb. One of my BYU professors had just been made a General Authority so I saw him up there all the time and he/I had several conversations. My last day of the internship was Sep 1, 1989 and I’ve never been a “Church employee” since so that’s something that me and George P. Lee (who got ex’ed that day) have in common as having the same last date of Church employment. However I’ve never molested any kids as he allegedly did.

[Not gonna take it anymore]

For God so loved the world he sent a book. Got it.

[MHGinTN]

The mocking tone of an unbeliever! How quaint. Now quote the scriptures properly, or be exposed for the fraud you are.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Q

[Jamestown1630]

It’s not what you believe that I have a problem with; that’s something between you and your God, just as beliefs are between Mormons, Catholics, etc., and their God. It’s the ranting, bullying manner and snide, smug shots that you present here, that turn me and many others ‘off’.

I especially don’t like bullies when they clothe themselves in religiosity.

[Jamestown1630]

Elsie, please leave me in my ‘sadness’. It’s been far more spiritually beneficial to me than anything I’ve received from the High Elsie Mountain.

[Elsie]

For God so loved the world he sent a book. Got it.

Does this mean you'd rather serve a...

...God who so loved the world he didn't have anything written down?

[Elsie]

I especially don’t like bullies when they clothe themselves in religiosity.

I see...

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Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23

 

  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

 

Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

 

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And St. Paul chimes in...

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Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[Elsie]

It’s the ranting, bullying manner and snide, smug shots that you present here,

I can only QUOTE what powerfully placed Mormons have said:

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Jamestown1630]

G’Nite, Elsie.

[Elsie]

"It’s been far more spiritually beneficial to me than anything I’ve received from the High Elsie Mountain.", Said the non-bully; non-smugly.

[Jamestown1630]

Elsie, when are you going to get a clue? You’re BORING as hell.

I said G’Nite! - and I MEAN it this time :-)