Posted on 03/30/2019 8:12:59 AM PDT by Salvation
Question: I had reason to hope my niece was going to convert to the Catholic faith. But there were so many obstacles the Church set up that discouraged her. She was asked to go to classes, and they told her that her marriage was not valid and she would need an annulment. Further, it was necessary to wait until Easter, etc. The nearby evangelical church set up no such obstacles, and she was able to join at once and be considered a member. I hear so much talk of evangelization today, but I share my niece’s frustration. Can we not streamline this process?
— Name withheld
Answer: There is a kind of appealing simplicity that you describe in many Protestant denominations. But there are problems with the approach that should give us pause. Ultimately evangelization is more about conversion than mere membership. We are summoned to embrace the saving teaching of the Lord and to walk according to it.
Because adults make informed decisions, the Church considers it important to teach them the fundamentals of the Faith so that they can know what it is they are agreeing to when they enter the Church. Although some of the Scriptures portray an almost instant, on-the-spot baptism, the consensus in the early Church shifted to a lengthy, three-year period of instruction (called the catechumenate) prior to baptism. This likely was because of the insight that quick conversions often led to quick departures or a falling away when the true demands of discipleship became known.
Instructions are most insisted upon for those who are unbaptized. In the case of those who are baptized and come from different Protestant denominations, the length and content of instructions will depend on their background. It is up to the discretion of the pastor who discerns with each individual what is needed. It is certainly not required for those already baptized to “wait until next Easter.”
The concerns about a person’s marital status are rooted in the very words and teachings of Jesus himself. He teaches without ambiguity that for a person to marry, then divorce and enter another marriage, puts them in an ongoing state of adultery in the “new” marriage (cf. Mt 5:32; Mt 19:1-9; Mk 10:11-12; Lk 16:18, etc). He adds rather firmly, “What God has joined together, let no one divide” (Mt 19:9).
It will be further noted that when the Lord was evangelizing the woman at the well, he brought her to a moment of conversion, and she asked for the gift of faith. But the Lord Jesus saw fit to first raise with her the fact that she had been married five times and was now living with a man outside of marriage. Her conversion would not be complete or adequate until she was willing to live chastely. Then the graces could flow.
For reasons of their own, many Protestant denominations have decided to practically overlook such passages. But the Catholic Church takes the Lord’s teaching on these matters rather seriously, as he clearly intended that we should. In some cases, after an investigation based on evidence, the Church may use its power to bind and loose, to indicate that the previous marriage was not “what God has joined,” and it recognizes the first marriage as null. A person’s current marriage then can be blessed and recognized. But we simply cannot set the Lord’s words aside as if they were of little importance.
Thus some conversions to the Catholic faith will take some time to be faithful to the teachings of the Lord and the nature of true conversion. It is worth the diligence required.
Just denial of the Word of God.
That's what the Bible says, regardless of what "religion" says. There are millions of born-again Christians, including you, walking around who don't know "all of his teachings".
“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:13.
Actually, for all the stages it can take years:
The Five Main Stages of the R.C.I.A. The Period of Inquiry...This period lasts as long as the person needs it to last, from a few months to several years, if necessary.
The Period of the Catechumenate...This period, too, lasts as long as the person needs it to last, from a few months to several years, if necessary.
Who needs to attend RCIA? People who have not received the sacrament of Baptism must attend RCIA for an extended period — ideally, a year, and preferably longer. - https://udayton.edu/ministry/liturgy/becoming_catholic/five_stages.php
Who needs to attend RCIA? People who have not received the sacrament of Baptism must attend RCIA for an extended period — ideally, a year, and preferably longer. - https://www.ctkcc.net/rcia/rcia-frequently-asked-questions-2/
The Vatican is making it much easier for Catholics to annul their marriages following a push by Pope Francis for reformation of a process long criticised for being complicated, costly and out of reach for many.
Rules unveiled on Tuesday speed up the annulment process, with a fast-track procedure now available, and allow for appeals to be judged by a local church official rather than the Vatican in what represents a significant decentralisation of power away from Rome...
He also emphasised that annulment ought to be free of cost. - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/08/pope-radically-reforms-catholic-churchs-marriage-annulment-process
And many of the same seem to take issue with some of modern RC teaching, even as stated by V2. Meaning they condemn us who hold to most of the same basic beliefs while ascertaining the veracity of church teaching based upon our judgment of what ancient (NT) church teachings says, while they do the like based upon their judgment of what selective historical RC teaching says.
“Just a denial of the Word of God.”
No, just a denial that a single passage you referenced means what you claimed.
You mean the early church fathers who preached salvation by grace through faith and not by works, in blatant contradiction to what modern day Roman Catholicism teaches? THOSE church fathers?
I don’t play golf, golf sucks.
The Church attracts trolls because her teachings are made public. I couldn’t even attack your protestant beliefs since there are so many variations, nobody has any idea what you believe!
I have both in my family, a brother who is a Baptist minister and Catholic family members. None of them treat me like you treat Catholics and I don’t attack their beliefs.
You do hate the Church, or you wouldn’t be getting in the middle of every post that’s remotely Catholic. I see zero Catholics jumping on every protestant post, actually I don’t even see protestants commenting on them, but they sure as hell comment on ours! So go ahead and tell yourself you just want the truth to be known, but don’t tell it to me, I don’t have any interest in anything related to you or anything a troll has to say. In other words have a great day, I’m heading out to shoot 200 clay targets, have fun with your hobby, attacking Catholics!
Paul says to not even eat with unrepentant sinners.
Rome says that if they’re your priest you have to take the Lord’s Supper from an unrepentant sinner if you want salvation.
And Rome is the church that covers up and defends their pedo priests too.
There was a guy in the past who made a habit of eating with sinners. Maybe you’ve heard of him.
I have to assume by your post that you have knowledge that none of your ministry sins? That would be news worth sharing!
Go bother someone else. I’m not playing
You mean you have priests whose primary unique function is to change bread and wine into the true body and blood of Christ - a christ whose body is not as that of the incarnated Christ with its critically important manifest physicality (which John emphasized in contrast to a christ whose appearance also did not correspond to what He materially was), but which looks, behaves, smells, tastes and would scientifically test as bread and wine, yet which is said to no longer exist. And then offer this as a sacrifice for sin and feed it to the flock as spiritual food. Until that it, the non-existent bread and wine manifests decay (though that has been taking place all along). At which point Christ is said to no longer be present. Nor the bread and wine for that matter.
But which metaphysical understanding is not what the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the OT and gospels, which is Scripture, especially Acts thru Revelation) manifests the NT church believed.
Including that being the primary unique function of pastors, who are never called by the unique word used for a separate sacerdotal class of believers.
Yes there are sinners in the Catholic Church, even priests and Bishops
Which in the NT church referred to the same persons .
Many follow the false preaching of man.
You've got it, the uninspired writings of so-called "church father" and above all what Rome says based upon selective invoking of them and skewing of Scripture./
For Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.
And even if the Apostles DID recieve the authority to forgive repentant sinners and retain the sins of the unrepentant, it does NOT follow that Roman Catholicism, which has declared many of the key teachings of the Apostles to be anathema, is the proprietor of that authority.
So many of Roman arguments rest on the 100% unfounded assertion that they and they alone are the Body of Christ, in direct contradiction to the words of Christ himself.
I said unrepentant sinners, or to be more specific, unrepentant sinners who claim to have faith in Jesus
Paul said to never eat with, or worship with unrepentant sinners who claim to have faith in Jesus.
You deny Apostolic teaching. So does Catholicism by keeping unrepentant sinners as priests.
That makes Rome no church at all, much less any one true church.
Indeed . Stand by for the specious extrapolation of "we are told to pray for each other.." etc. Meaning despite the Spirit inspiring the recording of over 200 prayers , and of this being a most basic practice, and despite there always being plenty of created beings to pray to, and occasions for it since the Fall, yet the only prayers or offerings in Scripture to anyone else in the unseen spiritual heaven is by pagans, including to the only Queen of Heaven seen in Scripture.
Failing to find even one example of PTCBIH, and with instruction on who to address in prayer to Heaven only being that of to the Lord, Caths must resort to eisegetical extrapolation, presuming those in Heaven can not only hear/understand all prayers from earth, mental or oral (which only God is shown able to do), but that we are to address them, though again the Holy Spirit never mentions even one example of doing so.
Meanwhile, from what I recall, any two-way communication btwn created beings in Heaven and earth required both to somehow be present in the same location, and was not that of asking them to intercede to God for them, and was very rare.
Note that elders and angels offering prayers (Rv. 5:8; 8:4,5) in memorial - like as in Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15; 16:9, "an offering of memorial" cf. Num. 16:9, - is not that of them being addressed in prayer, nor does it indicate that they had heard them previously, nor is it described as being a regular postal service, but it is one of the things which is a preclude to the final judgments upon the earth, testifying to the persecutions of the saints by the devil and world that it fit to be punished.
For when "He maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble. (Psalms 9:12; cf. Genesis 4:10) and before judgment God brings forth testimony of the warrant for it, which includes the cry of those martyred souls under the altar in Rv. 6:9, and with odors representing prayer, akin to Leviticus 6:15, "burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the Lord." (Leviticus 6:15)
That’s pretty weak deflection for glossing over the evil perpetrated by your church over the millennia.
We’re called to far better than that and if you ever read Scripture, you would know that.
And you would know there is NO excuse for those in a church or church leadership to be acting in such a reprehensible way.
The Bible is very clear on how to address sin in the midst of the congregation and party of it is expelling those who practice it.
Not really because of the persecution complex they wear on their sleeves.
Those of the Church of the perpetually Offended are always going to be offended and claim victim status.
Get over it. You're giving yourselves far too much credit.
One would think Catholics themselves are the better judges of whether some hate them.
Not really because of the persecution complex they wear on their sleeves.
***
If we hated Catholics we’d be happy to leave you to rot in your counterfeit church.
Instead we’re trying to bring you out of it, despite all the insults and falsehoods laid upon us by the ‘holy’ Catholics.
That may be a comforting conception but it is simply specious, as a even examination of RCs posts from the divisions of RCs over the years or less on FR would attest. The class that rejects Francis as being a valid pope is so "vocal" that the last I saw the RM considered posts about the popes as being about a non-Catholic and thus a disqualification from using the Catholic Caucus thread label.
Chapter and verse?
And NO ONE on the planet getting married the first time is capable of having a *full understanding* of all that marriage entails.
I am in GChrist's church. I am the church.
I left a homsexual/pedo religious organization that claims to be of Christ, which puts on a good front with all the ceremony and bells and whistles and rites and rituals, but is about as Christian as Hollywood. One that puts people in bondage to itself with all its requirements for maybe salvation, that they can't even guarantee.
I have Christ in me, the hope of glory. I have been born again into the family of God by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
Why would I want to go back to dead religiosity?
Matthew 23: 8-10 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.
Still calling your priests *Father*???
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