Posted on 03/30/2019 8:12:59 AM PDT by Salvation
Question: I had reason to hope my niece was going to convert to the Catholic faith. But there were so many obstacles the Church set up that discouraged her. She was asked to go to classes, and they told her that her marriage was not valid and she would need an annulment. Further, it was necessary to wait until Easter, etc. The nearby evangelical church set up no such obstacles, and she was able to join at once and be considered a member. I hear so much talk of evangelization today, but I share my niece’s frustration. Can we not streamline this process?
— Name withheld
Answer: There is a kind of appealing simplicity that you describe in many Protestant denominations. But there are problems with the approach that should give us pause. Ultimately evangelization is more about conversion than mere membership. We are summoned to embrace the saving teaching of the Lord and to walk according to it.
Because adults make informed decisions, the Church considers it important to teach them the fundamentals of the Faith so that they can know what it is they are agreeing to when they enter the Church. Although some of the Scriptures portray an almost instant, on-the-spot baptism, the consensus in the early Church shifted to a lengthy, three-year period of instruction (called the catechumenate) prior to baptism. This likely was because of the insight that quick conversions often led to quick departures or a falling away when the true demands of discipleship became known.
Instructions are most insisted upon for those who are unbaptized. In the case of those who are baptized and come from different Protestant denominations, the length and content of instructions will depend on their background. It is up to the discretion of the pastor who discerns with each individual what is needed. It is certainly not required for those already baptized to “wait until next Easter.”
The concerns about a person’s marital status are rooted in the very words and teachings of Jesus himself. He teaches without ambiguity that for a person to marry, then divorce and enter another marriage, puts them in an ongoing state of adultery in the “new” marriage (cf. Mt 5:32; Mt 19:1-9; Mk 10:11-12; Lk 16:18, etc). He adds rather firmly, “What God has joined together, let no one divide” (Mt 19:9).
It will be further noted that when the Lord was evangelizing the woman at the well, he brought her to a moment of conversion, and she asked for the gift of faith. But the Lord Jesus saw fit to first raise with her the fact that she had been married five times and was now living with a man outside of marriage. Her conversion would not be complete or adequate until she was willing to live chastely. Then the graces could flow.
For reasons of their own, many Protestant denominations have decided to practically overlook such passages. But the Catholic Church takes the Lord’s teaching on these matters rather seriously, as he clearly intended that we should. In some cases, after an investigation based on evidence, the Church may use its power to bind and loose, to indicate that the previous marriage was not “what God has joined,” and it recognizes the first marriage as null. A person’s current marriage then can be blessed and recognized. But we simply cannot set the Lord’s words aside as if they were of little importance.
Thus some conversions to the Catholic faith will take some time to be faithful to the teachings of the Lord and the nature of true conversion. It is worth the diligence required.
If you want to live under the covenant of the law, you have free will to do so, and you will fail to find salvation therein because you are not a Jew under the covenant of the law and as a human cannot live the sinless life in the character of GOD. BUT Jesus ended that covenant (Read Hebrews) and established a new covenant:
Luke 22:14 Now when the hour came, Jesus took his place at the table, along with his apostles. 15 He told them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover meal with you before I suffer, 16 because I tell all of you, I will never eat it again until it finds its fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” [The Jews to whom Jesus offered the Kingdom rejected it, thus postponing the establishment of it on earth until after the seventieth week of Daniel. The seventieth week is to put an end to sin in Israel, THEN the Kingdom is erected on Earth. How does sin in Israel end during the tribulation? The testing yields a remnant who come to saving faith in Jesus as Their MESSIAH. By faith you are saved, not of works lest anyman boast.)17 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and said, “Take this and share it among yourselves, 18 because I tell you, from now on I will never drink the product of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
19 Then he took a loaf of bread, gave thanks, broke it in pieces, and handed it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Keep on doing this in memory of me.”
20 He did the same with the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant sealed by my blood, which is being poured out for you.
The Ten Commandments are a perfect picture of the character of God and will never be nullified because God cannot be eroded.
Passover meal was the remembrance the Jews were commanded to make for what God did in bringing them out of bondage. The cups and breaking of un levened bread were a remembrance. Once out of Egypt they were given the covenant of the law to restrain sin in Israel. THAT COVENANT ended when they rejected Messiah. GOD established the covenant and the Jews nullified it by rejecting the fruit of that covenant.
JESUS established a NEW COVENANT (see verse 20 above) and died as the testator to make it immutably enforce. Since you and I cannot keep the law, JESUS did it for us. In the New Covenant we receive the righteousness of Jesus by turning our will to God's directing and faithing in the Promise that Jesus came in the flesh and established The covenant of God's Grace for us, received by us by faithing in HIS PROMISE FULFILLED.
Every day I read a little in the morning, including the daily email messages from True Life In God and also from the USCCB (that Salvation posts).
I also listen to Alexander Scourby, who reads through the entire Bible each year a little at a time, every day at 3:00 PM on the Bible Broadcasting Network.
I don’t know where I belong, but I am immersing myself in western Christianity every day.
In the morning while getting ready for the day and while making breakfast, and at any other time I’m working in the kitchen, I like the local SDA broadcasts and the many different sermons on BBN.
Do I agree with everyone’s opinions and understandings? No, but I do get a little bit of everything, from many different points of view, ever day, including yours here.
Thanks!
Whether we agree with each other or not, I appreciate your points of view.
In my mind? I am a sinner. I hope I am forgiven and I hope He will have Mercy on me, the sinner that I am.
Per what I have read? I may be forgiven, however I also know that am a work in progress and that I still sin against Him.
If His take on adultry is true? I am reasonably sure that I violate at least one of His Commandments and one or more of His Father’s virtually every day.
My thoughts, my nature, my soul ... all works in progress. And I believe it is by our works that we reveal our personal truth, about our nature and our beliefs, and about who/what we truly follow, regardless of what we tell ourselves and each other.
It is also by our works that I believe we are purified, by serving Him and by doing His Will.
Me? I’m not nearly small enough yet to enter by any door. I am learning my current place in the Holy Hierarchy, so I say the Jesus Prayer a lot.
I am hopefully forgiven, but in my mind and my heart I know I am not “good” enough to enter His Kingdom without being cleaned up a bit.
So, I can believe that there is a place and process of purification for the saved who died in any state of sin.
The SDA broadcast I'm assuming is the Seventh Day Adventist's, right? That explains the questions you are having WRT to the "Sabbath". There are numerous doctrines of the SDA that are in contradiction to Biblical Christianity in addition to their insistence that Saturday is the ONLY true Sabbath and the keeping of it is essential to our salvation. I know that the Apostles had to deal with this kind of Law vs. Grace argument and this Scripture gives us what their answer was to them:
Beautiful!
You are welcome.
I can state that it took a while before I was ready to accept all the things that I read in the Book; too.
I listen to them in the morning from 9 to 9:30 for a health program. Awesome information! I am very impressed by the SDA’s medical knowledge, especially about health and diet.
Look into the CHIPhealth program, for example. Good stuff! Their radio station broadcasts other programs, too, but this is my main exposure to the SDA.
I was surprised to hear that they also agree with the Sabbath being Saturday, not Sunday.
Full disclosure: I think the SDA are also correct about the Rapture, too, but I also disagree with other things they believe.
It’s like my friend says, “All religions have a piece of the truth.”
For example, hjere is a program I watched long before I had heard the SDA talk about the Sabbath.
Fwiw; From Sabbagth to Sunday
They’re good about laying out a Biblical case for the viewer to decide for themselves.
Corrections don’t come easy for me with this iPad, but typos do!
The gathering of New Covenant members first met by the summons of the Holy Ghost on the first day of the week, and again on the first day of the next week, and so it has been from then on. That is the day of the weekly meeting appointed by God for His servants to which the Spirit-led apostles accustomed them.
No other explanation is necessary, and certainly no excuse is desired, required, or offered.
What you think or surmise is irrelevant to this standing order.
Christians can get together and worship ANY day of the week but traditionally Sunday, the first day of the week, was chosen for worship because of the significance of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It set apart the believers in Christ from the Jewish religious people, but you can read in the New Testament how the Jewish Apostles STILL attended the synagogues on the sabbath in addition to worshipping with followers of Christ on the first day of the week.
The error of SDAs and a few others is when they claim everyone MUST worship on Saturday or they cannot be saved. That's not something that the New Testament teaches and, in fact, as the verses I referenced to you, Christians were free to worship together on any day - it was not a binding dogma and certainly not a requirement for salvation. We are not saved by keeping the Law or being "good" nor can we earn, merit or deserve heaven. That is why Christ died for us and rose again and by His shed blood made propitiation for all our sins. We are saved by the grace of God through faith and not by our works - no matter how good we are or how many laws we keep. Grace means unearned, undeserved, unmerited, un-worked for. Faith saves, works can never save.
I hope you have a blessed Easter and that you find the answers you seek. What a wonderful time of year to be able to say you have the assurance of your salvation and you rejoice in knowing Jesus Christ as your Savior.
Fwiw, the program I sent the link to addresses the points you mentioned with Scripture, names and dates.
Does it matter? Who is the Judge of such things?
Personally, I think it’s fascinating how many different opinions we all have and the justifications we have for them, simply to understand and explain to ourselves the One who was, is and shall be. And we each know we are correct!
Even with Easter, we have 2 separate days to celebrate!
And just look at what we do with Christmas and the different calendars for that day! Wow...
As to what calendar, what days to celebrate what on, etc., it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Christians are free to decide many things for themselves and not get caught up in disputable matters, endless genealogies, irreverent and silly myths and controversial speculations. They are time wasters and only muddy the waters. People behind cults often get newbies caught up in such things in order to make them question everything they may know and to sound like they have all the answers. Most times, they really don't.
My pastor often said we should remember that the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. The main thing is Jesus Christ who saves us by His sinless shed blood because of the grace, mercy and love of God. He offers to us eternal life through faith alone and not on the basis of what we do to earn or deserve it. Get that part settled in your heart and then let the Lord lead you from there. Ask Him to lead you to a Christian fellowship where you can meet with others to worship and learn about the Christian faith. It will help build you up and strengthen your faith. We all start out as babies in Christ and we need the "milk" at first. As we mature in the Lord, stronger "meat" can be tolerated. You should get the basics first. I've been a Christian for 50 years now and I can see the progression in my life as my faith has matured. I hardly know it all, but I have never lost my love of studying the word and seeing how God is working in my life to sanctify (set apart) me and conform me into being more like Christ. I know that I am going to heaven when I die - without a shadow of a doubt - and I rejoice in God my Savior. I will be praying for you to know that same assurance. I'll leave you with one of my favorite sayings and hope you believe it and take it to heart. I know it is truthful:
I do compare at Bible Hub and they are NOT the same, at least not to me.
What I observe is that we in Protestant country all get to have our own churches, our own personal Jesus, our own Bibles and our own understanding about everything!
I think this is confusing, so I am curious about what “Becoming Catholic” might be all about, which is the title of this thread, right?
Personally, I think my friend is right, that all religions have a piece of the truth.
His other quote is: “Never drink downstream beer.”
In other words, the water is purest at the Source. Better to drink from there, if you can figure out which one It is....
Like the man in the movie said, “Choose... wisely.” That’s my answer to WHY.
Allow me to correct you and say that I am not “worried about it”. I am interested.
I want to know where we are in the story we are born into and I am looking for clues to support what I have read in the messages in True Life In God and elsewhere.
I'd like to see some stats showing SDAs do better health wise and longevity wise.
I hear ya!
Cursor control in the text mode pretty much sucks!!
So does being able to select the text you want.
But; how many of them have a SAVIOR?
Romans 1:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
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Like a buddy of mine used to say, “Never drink downstream beer.” 39 posted on 7/3/2018 11:40:14 AM by GBA (Here in the matrix, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.) |
Well; HIS story seems to have been recorded sufficiently by the end of the NT; although there are MANY who say that much more that needed to be said (and followed).
[I'm sure that many groups may come to mind; having come into existence in the last 2000 or so years.]
But then; there are beliefs that predate Christianity; that say anything AFTER them are wrong.
So; what's a fella to do?
Joshua 24:15 King James Version (KJV)
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve;
whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood,
or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell:
but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
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