A rendering of the Diocese of Orange's Our Lady of La Vang Shrine. Image courtesy of Torrence Architects
Posted on 11/25/2018 7:06:58 AM PST by marshmallow
A rendering of the Diocese of Orange's Our Lady of La Vang Shrine. Image courtesy of Torrence Architects
GARDEN GROVE, Calif. (RNS) — Like most Vietnamese-American Catholics, Elysabeth Nguyen grew up hearing stories of Our Lady of La Vang, who is said to have saved her people from persecution.
The Marian apparition is said to have appeared in the late 1700s to a group of Catholics fleeing persecution in Vietnam. She then became a centerpiece of Catholic faith in the country, and after the fall of Saigon in 1975 — when more than a million Vietnamese became refugees — her intercession was credited with sparing the lives of her devotees. Churches named for the La Vang virgin are now thought to be as numerous in the United States as those dedicated to the apparitions at Fatima or Lourdes.
Now Nguyen and a group of Vietnamese-American Catholics in Orange County, Calif., home to the largest Vietnamese Catholic community outside Vietnam, are leading the development of the United States’ first major stand-alone shrine to Our Lady of La Vang.
The multi-million-dollar shrine, located at the Catholic Diocese of Orange’s Christ Cathedral in Garden Grove, will offer the 100,000 Vietnamese-American Catholics in the diocese a gathering place and, its builders expect, an international pilgrimage site. The diocese broke ground on the project in October.
“To have a shrine here reminds them of the homeland, of how grateful they are to be here, and the fruits and blessings they’ve had since coming to this country,” said Nguyen, project manager for the La Vang Shrine Committee with the Diocese of Orange.
(Excerpt) Read more at religionnews.com ...
Continuing to prove my observation that it is usually, though not always, the Roman Catholic who resorts to the personal attack and/or profanity when the argument is against them.
I’ve always said that anti-Catholics live in a paranoid twilight world. I think you’re proving that for me.
Actually, I think your buddy would if he could.
Your opinion - which you have shown in the past to be grossly misinformed on every spiritual subject - doesn’t really matter.
To be clear...you are saying these are not claiming to be Mary?
Vald....you wouldn't know you're wrong if it was staring you in the mirror. You've been proven wrong in numerous threads. Your ego just won't let you see that.
You're bowing before an idol.
You're praying before that idol and to the image it represents.
The Roman Catholic definition of saint is different from that of the New Testament. The RCC definition is a man-made definition not supported by the New Testament.
The prayers to these saints shows a lack of faith on the part of the Roman Catholic to address their prayers directly to God.
I debate with tenacity. That’s true. What I don’t do is lie. Maybe one day anti-Catholics here will be able to say the same? Maybe.
Well....yes you do lie. Hate to break it to you.
Repeatedly denying it is worship is spreading a false doctrine and is encouraging others to engage in idolatry.
“Repeatedly denying it is worship is spreading a false doctrine and is encouraging others to engage in idolatry.”
Since there is no worship of any idol going on there is “Repeatedly denying it is worship”. It simply isn’t worship. Period.
“Well....yes you do lie. Hate to break it to you.”
You can break whatever of yours you want, but I am not lying and you will utterly fail to show that I am. You’re the only one between us who is posting falsehoods.
“To be clear...you are saying these are not claiming to be Mary?”
To be clear…I never said any such thing nor even implied it. You made a statement that was merely your opinion – and an uninformed one as is always the case whenever you engage in debate here. Learn to read. It’s not hard.
“Vald....you wouldn’t know you’re wrong if it was staring you in the mirror.”
Since, between us, you’re the only one who is saying something that is objectively false you really have no room to speak. You consistently make errors. You still don’t get a clue even after shown that you made errors. You show know interest in the truth, or facts, or accuracy or precision.
“You’ve been proven wrong in numerous threads.”
Actually, no. You seemed to be filled with fantasies.
“Your ego just won’t let you see that.”
Ego has nothing to do with it. It’s a simple exercise in logic. Catholics do not worship idols. We don’t worship statues. You insist we do. You have no evidence whatsoever that Catholics do. Every practicing Catholic you throw this at here at FR – even people who have never talked to you before – say that you’re completely wrong on this. Even non-Catholics have called you out on this. It doesn’t matter. You simply show no interest whatsoever in the truth.
“Actually, I think your buddy would if he could.”
You do not know my buddy. It’s presumptuous – and typical – for you to presume you do.
What “tried and died” tactic will you resort to next?
Are you saying you don't make errors??
Ego has nothing to do with it. It’s a simple exercise in logic. Catholics do not worship idols. We don’t worship statues. You insist we do. You have no evidence whatsoever that Catholics do. Every practicing Catholic you throw this at here at FR – even people who have never talked to you before – say that you’re completely wrong on this. Even non-Catholics have called you out on this. It doesn’t matter. You simply show no interest whatsoever in the truth.
If you, or anyone else, is kneeling before a "statue" and praying to it, or to the image it represents, that is worship.
You don't like that definition is clear....but that's what it is.
I'd expect every Roman Catholic to deny it. For them to admit it would an admission of idolatry. Mormons refuse to admit their error as well.
Yes, modern Asian minimalism. The native Vietnamese style was busier, more influenced by Indian styles.
Thank you.
Who gave you permission to separate Christ from the Father and the Holy Spirit?
I think it’s sad that you claim to be know Scripture but you evidently completely missed the verses condemning rash judgement of others, such that you apparently feel you’re completely competent to judge and condemn others for sins that only someone who sees into another’s heart could possibly be competent to judge.
My old man would talk to his parents who had died. I'm not sure if it was praying or not. (Or maybe when you are “talking” to dead people - that is the definition of praying?)
I think it is in Hebrews where it talks about the great cloud of witnesses (saints - small ‘s’) that have gone before us that he might have been thinking of. But also in Hebrews there is lots of stuff about coming directly before the throne of God with prayer.
I always thought it was a bit odd him thinking of his folks that way. He had a large Pentecostal presence when he grew up, so maybe that's where that comes from. I often WISH I could talk to my folks again!
Not even a mackerel snapper my friend
And you didn’t explain a round head.
/.
Didn't realize I was required to explain another poster's 4th grade rant.
Who gave you permission to separate Christ from the Father and the Holy Spirit?
Who has separated anyone?
We are called to be a follower of Christ in the NT.
Funny, I missed your posts to your fellow Roman Catholics along these lines when they trash non-Roman Catholics.
I guess you have a serious problem with Jesus or Paul in their pointing out of sin.
Yes...that is a good example on how to pray.
Sadly, some have taken that to mean that's the only way we can pray.
Prayer is talking and listening to God.....we should probably do more listening than talking though.
I often WISH I could talk to my folks again!
I hear ya! I'd love to have another hour with my folks as well.
However, I am comforted that I will see them again as we are all followers of Christ.
“You’re bowing before an idol.”
Not knowing me, you have no idea what I’m doing.
It appears that your statements are in effect that you’re right and the rest of the world is wrong. Discussing with a zealot of this nature has always been fruitless, so I’ll leave you with your convictions and the knowledge that it doesn’t matter what you think.
When confronted with their idolatry, Roman Catholics often respond as you do.
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