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[Catholic Caucus] RIP, Vatican II Catholicism (1962-2018)
One Peter Five ^ | October 9, 2018 | Peter Kwasniewski

Posted on 10/09/2018 4:09:28 PM PDT by ebb tide

RIP, Vatican II Catholicism (1962-2018)

Among astute observers of the Vatican scene – okay, forget that; among warm bodies with evidence of consciousness – it has been known for several years now that we cannot expect Pope Francis, who is a major cause of the problems the Church is suffering under, to be a major part of those problems’ solution. This includes anything to do with clerical sex abuse and the death grip of progressive prelates. Each passing month, we see that it’s business as usual for the Peronist pontiff.

But, as many writers have pointed out, this pontificate has been, in spite of all the evils, a tremendous gift of Divine Providence to us. Yes, we can truly say this. For Francis has brought to a clarity past any reasonable (or unreasonable) doubt, one might even say has amplified to fever pitch, the utter bankruptcy of “Vatican II Catholicism,” with its lightweight liturgy; its unserious opposition to the world, the flesh, and the devil; and its continual compromise with the reigning forces of liberalism.

Everyone knows what I am talking about. I was once one of those Talmudic scholars who attempted to square every circle in the sixteen documents of the Council. I praised their textual orthodoxy and lamented their neglect or distortion at the hands of hijackers. I knew that the loyal Catholic mentality always began its sentences “if only…”: “If only the new liturgy were properly celebrated…”; “If only the new catechism were widely taught…”; “If only people everywhere could just follow the lead of the great Polish pope” (and later, “the great German pope”).

That’s where I used to live. I have since moved on to a bigger and more beautiful dwelling called traditional Catholicism. I was tired of living in the newly built, supposedly more energy-efficient and environmentally sound but in reality flimsy, drafty, fluorescent, insect-infested, falling-apart building produced by the only ecumenical council that made no solemn definitions and issued no solemn condemnations. I came to see, thanks to detailed studies by such authors as Wiltgen, Davies, Amerio, Ferrara, de Mattei, and Sire, that the hijackers were not the ones after the Council, but the ones inside the Council who cleverly steered it toward the progressivism and modernism they secretly longed for, deliberately planting “time bombs” throughout the documents – ambiguous phrases that could be turned this way or that, and which were turned this way and that in the neverending turf war between liberals and “conservatives” of every stripe, at every level.

I came to see that the problem was the new liturgy – not just in the obviously bad manner in which it was being “celebrated” throughout the world, but in and of itself, in its official books, their texts, their rubrics. The new Catechism, too, in its diffuse verbosity and its glossing over difficult points like the headship of the husband in marriage, was not the magic solution; indeed, it was recently demoted to the status of reflecting pool for the reigning Narcissus, which gives it about as much value as an airplane interview. Above all, I came to see that “just following the pope” wheresoever he may go, on land or sea or sky, is not only not the solution, but a large part of the problem.

And what is that problem? The eclipse, in our times, of any coherent idea of what Catholicism is, has been, and will always be – the willed eclipse, since “men loved darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil” (Jn. 3:19).

The liturgy we were given by Paul VI, courtesy of Archbishop Bugnini and his all-star Consilium, is indeed a lightweight liturgy that cannot sustain the weight of God’s glory or meet the weighty needs of the human soul. Many know nothing else, and their plight reminds me of the black and white photos of long lines of people in Soviet Russia waiting for their crust of bread. This is not what the liturgy of the Church has offered to her people in ages past: it offered them a royal banquet, a king’s delight, a glimpse of heaven, fellowship with the saints and angels. I’m not saying preconciliar liturgy was always perfect, for we know it wasn’t, but the rites of the Church possessed in themselves the density and beauty that made a rich liturgical life always possible and frequently attainable.  Catholics today who have gone back to the traditional liturgy often come away with amazement: “They took that away from us?!” Yes, they did: this incomparable school of prayer, this inflexible staff to support our weakness, this comforting beauty to lure our earthbound souls into heaven – this was taken away, and those who did it knew exactly what they were doing, and why.

Earlier I spoke of “unserious opposition to the world, the flesh, and the devil.” This is the mark of postconciliar Catholicism. Oppose the world? No, we have to dialogue with it, understand it, sympathize with it, come to terms with it, make common cause with it, recycle its garbage and adopt its slogans. Out went all the ancient prayers of the Mass that spoke of spiritual warfare, the deceits of the evil one, the need for ascetical violence against our fallen nature. Everything was smoothed over in recognition of the goodness of everything and everyone (if only they knew it).

Heavy-duty exorcisms were stripped out of the baptismal rite, where they had been since apostolic times, because of the revealed truth that mankind after the Fall is under Satan’s princedom and the citizens of heaven have to be torn away from his influence. Days of fasting and abstinence were canceled out left and right; instead of renewing ancient tradition (as the talking heads claimed), it was ignored or shrugged off as superstitious. The only direction was downhill: dispensing, simplifying, abbreviating, abolishing.

As for self-control, the sexual morality of the Christian people worldwide, above all in the West, from which the conciliar documents and reforms emanated, is at an all-time nadir – not only because of the unforeseen intensity of the anti-authoritarian revolution of 1968, but even more because of a fundamental loss of faith in the salvific truth and liberating power of God’s commandments.

Today, in 2018, we are reaping the putrid fruits of this loss of faith, this lack of self-control, this stripping away of all asceticism and warfare from the Christian vision of life, this foolish optimism that rippled through the Church of the 1960s and begot the demon offspring of “Nietzschean Catholicism.” It has been a continual compromise with the reigning forces of liberalism, a chipping away at the demands of the Gospel, a suppression of hard truths and the love of God for His own sake and above all things. The end is nothing-worship—the nihilism concentrated in the unforgettable image of a priest, later a cardinal of the Holy Roman Church, abusing a boy who happened to be the first person he baptized two weeks after his ordination.

For a long time, I thought John Paul II and Benedict XVI were fighting the good fight against this revolutionary reinterpretation of Christianity, but after a few high-profile interreligious meetings, osculations of the Koran, book-length interviews with dialectical answers to every question, and other such indicators, I lost my enthusiasm for them as pastors, whatever I might have admired in their philosophical or theological writings (which, however you slice it, are not the primary job of a pope). It was a shock to the system to realize that these popes, though undoubtedly well intentioned, were swimming in a lake of Kool-Aid rather than the ocean of Tradition – the only difference being that they were strong enough to keep swimming and occasionally cry out to heaven for help, instead of drowning and sinking to the bottom like a millstone with a cardinal tied around its neck.

The last five years are not a sudden catastrophe that came from nowhere; they are the orange juice concentrate of the past fifty years, the last act in a tragedy that has been escalating to this point. Bergoglio is the distillation of all the worst tendencies in Roncalli, Montini, Wojtyła, and Ratzinger, without any of their redeeming qualities. Francis’s predecessors were conflicted and inconsistent progressives; he is a convicted modernist. Just as political conservatism is liberalism in slow motion, so postconciliar Catholicism is modernism in slow motion. The sooner people see this, the sooner they will reject the whole failed and torturous experiment of aggiornamento in favor of an unequivocal embrace of the Catholic Faith in its age-old and perennially youthful liturgy, its magnificently harmonious and comprehensive doctrine, its all-demanding, life-saving morals.

Let us not forget that John Paul II and Benedict XVI were both involved in the Assisi meetings; that they never questioned the rightness of the “razing of the bastions,” the “turn toward the world” and the embrace of modernity that was the hallmark of Vatican II; that they encouraged feminism with one hand [1] while trying to restrain it with the other; and that, above all, they appointed and promoted so many of the terrible bishops and cardinals under whom we are suffering today, as this chart shows:

Prelate Created Bishop By Created Cardinal By
Theodore McCarrick Paul VI John Paul II
Angelo Sodano Paul VI John Paul II
Tarcisio Bertone John Paul II John Paul II
Pietro Parolin Benedict XVI Francis
William Levada John Paul II Benedict XVI
Marc Ouellet John Paul II John Paul II
Lorenzo Baldisseri John Paul II Francis
Ilson de Jesus Montanari Francis
Leonardo Sandri John Paul II Benedict XVI
Fernando Filoni John Paul II Benedict XVI
Dominique Mamberti John Paul II Francis
Francesco Coccopalmerio John Paul II Benedict XVI
Giovanni Lajolo John Paul II Benedict XVI
Vincenzo Paglia John Paul II
Edwin O’Brien John Paul II Benedict XVI
Renato Raffaele Martino John Paul II John Paul II
Donald Wuerl John Paul II Benedict XVI
Paul Bootkoski John Paul II
John Myers John Paul II
Kevin Farrell John Paul II Francis
Seán O’Malley John Paul II Benedict XVI
Oscar Rodríguez Maradiaga John Paul II John Paul II
Blase Cupich John Paul II Francis
Joseph Tobin Benedict XVI Francis
Robert McElroy Benedict XVI
Edgar Peña Parra Benedict XVI
John Nienstedt John Paul II
Jorge Bergoglio John Paul II John Paul II

(Source: Unam Sanctam)

It is not all Francis’s fault; indeed, he is grimly reaping what they have sown, even while he is tearing down much of what they built. In the end, there are only two reasons we had a conclave of cardinals who voted for Bergoglio: Wojtyła and Ratzinger. More generally, they are the reason we have a worldwide episcopacy made up of a tiny minority of traditional bishops (by which I mean bishops who believe, preach, teach, and enforce the Catholic Faith as taught, inter alia, by the Council of Trent) and a huge majority of ferocious liberals, toothless conservatives, and pencil-pushing bureaucrats. If John Paul II had spent less time globetrotting and writing massive, dense, and now mostly forgotten encyclicals (with Veritatis Splendor as the glowing exception) and more time on his single most important duty, that of vetting and choosing bishops of proven doctrinal orthodoxy, moral probity, and commitment to the sacred liturgy, men without the slightest hint of liberalism or laxity, the Church might be in a dramatically different place today. The same could be said of the beloved but largely ineffectual professor-turned-pontiff Benedict XVI. That he had a retiring personality turned from a forgivable quirk into a nightmare on February 11, 2013.

These two popes also knew – as we now see in ever greater detail – about wicked behavior in high places and seldom took decisive and severe measures to uproot it. Bergoglio celebrates unnatural vice, and his predecessors tolerated it. Bergoglio shamelessly promotes those enemies of Catholicism whom his predecessors were too afraid to fight.

*          *          *

Can we say, at last, that practicing and believing Catholics generally have been awakened from their dogmatic slumber?

Would that it were so. Alas, the capacity of the human mind to ignore reality even when it is crashing around one’s head is all too real, and the capacity for ideology to blind the eye and deafen the ear is no less notorious. But for those with eyes open to seeing and ears open to hearing, the truth has emerged into broad daylight: the Catholic Faith as our forefathers believed and lived it, the Catholic Faith as a vast cloud of witnesses knew it and loved it, this Catholic Faith is something utterly different from what is being peddled by the Vatican today. What the new regime offers is ephemeral, fragile, and self-contradictory, held together only by force.

The alternative is equally clear: the complex but internally consistent religion taught by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church; savored by monks and mystics; authoritatively proclaimed by the great councils; unanimously codified in hundreds of catechisms; and, above all, luminously, exultantly embodied in the great liturgical rites of East and West, the common heritage of all orthodox Christians who worship the thrice-holy Trinity in an unbroken tradition.

This, this is Catholicism. Nothing else. Do not look for it where it cannot be found. Do not strain or break your neck trying to find a way to look at the novelties as if they were tradition, for it cannot be done. Do not strain the gnats while swallowing the camels. Hearken again to the one true Faith that missionized the globe in the Old Evangelization.

What will it take to free every last Catholic from the last illusions about the supposed “new springtime” of Vatican II? I do not know. It may be that only death will rescue some from the jealous clutches of the new paradigm, but there are certainly many signs that the charm – or perhaps more accurately, the mirage – is vanishing as many find their way back to the divine religion of Christ.

The Vatican II period that officially began in 1962 officially ended with l’affaire McCarrick and Viganògate in 2018. Fifty-six years of alternately riotous and lazy living gave heart disease to this human similitude of the Church, and it died from sudden cardiac arrest. Let us bury it in unconsecrated ground, with the fond wish that it may rest in the silence of the tomb and never rise.

 


[1] For example, by ensuring that the Catechism contained no reference to the headship of the husband, in spite of the fact that this is taught more frequently in the New Testament than many other doctrines of our faith, and by approving the use of female altar servers, and or by continuing the custom of female lectors at Mass, contrary to 2,000 years of universal tradition in churches of apostolic descent.


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: modernism; vcii
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To: NorthMountain

Are you under the impression that there was no infiltration of the Church hierarchy by Freemasons, communists and sodomites? Or is that too *conspiratorial* for you?


21 posted on 10/09/2018 8:28:37 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Fides quaerens intellectum.)
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To: livius

“...vernacular...”

Definitely not a mixture the two! A hybrid mass does not work. The mass needs to said in Latin because the minute it goes into the vernacular the translators (on purpose) finesse the Latin to achieve a watered down version of the teachings and doctrine found in the original language.


22 posted on 10/10/2018 4:25:12 AM PDT by stonehouse01
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To: ebb tide; TradicalRC
I think you recognize the truth of my statement. I thinbk you know that the list I asked for is the Empty Set.

And YES. TRC, the Church was assaulted and infiltrated by various malefactors. That doesn't mean all, or even most, of the enemies were foreign.

And simply being "Traditional Catholicism" DID NOT prevent the enemies foreign and domestic from doing their damage. As stated, EVERYONE at Vatican II was a product of "Traditional Catholicism". EVERYONE who initially implemented the "Spirit of Vaticn II" was a product of "Traditional Catholicism".

The "Oath Against Modernism" didn't stop them The 1960 (and earlier) prohibitions against sodomites in seminaries didn't stop them. Rerum Novarum didn't stop them.

Thus my point: Simply returning to "Traditional Catholicism" will NOT solve our problems. Our problems (and those who caused them) did just fine swimming along in the sea of "Traditional Catholicism".

The Church must make a specific, focused, concentrated, public effort to identify and eliminate the various malefactors from positions of authority. The Church must make a specific, focused, concentrated, public effort to identify postulants and seminarians who are malefactors, and reject them. The Church must do these things EFFECTIVELY, not just as a show or a set of meaningless unenforced documents.

These efforts were clearly NOT part of "Traditional Catholicism". They should have been. They must be part of Catholicism in the future.

23 posted on 10/10/2018 4:44:44 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: ebb tide

Vatican II was loaded to the gills with Protestant theologians.


24 posted on 10/10/2018 5:47:42 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Man without God descends into madness”)
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To: ebb tide

“Vatican II was loaded to the gills with Protestant theologians.”

EDIT: Vatican II was was loaded to the gills with Protestant “advisors.”


25 posted on 10/10/2018 5:56:00 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Man without God descends into madness”)
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To: NorthMountain
The Church has always had sinners, and She always will, beginning with Judas and Peter, who denied Christ three times. VC II and the Novus Ordo are beasts by themselves. They are the culmination of the sythesis of all heresies, modernism, as forewarned by Pope St. Pius X in PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS.

PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS

I'll repeat, VCII does not get a pass on the Church's problems today.

26 posted on 10/10/2018 8:46:28 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: NorthMountain
From Bergolio's Yute Sin-Nod:

We noted that a proclamation of chastity, as achievable and good for our young people, is missing from the document.

Synod2018: Young People Discussion Groups Offer Reports (Full Text)

27 posted on 10/10/2018 8:59:54 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
VCII does not get a pass

I NEVER SAID IT DID!!!!

QUIT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

QUIT ATTRIBUTING MOTIVE (FALSELY) TO ME.

Now, read what I wrote. Every bit of it is true.

Simply going back to whatever it is that you feel to be "Traditional Catholicism" WILL NOT HELP, unless we also take serious, meaningful, effective steps to keep sodomites, heretics, and infidels OUT of the clergy and religious life.

PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS did not keep the sodomites, heretics, and infidels out of the clergy and religious orders.

28 posted on 10/10/2018 10:32:24 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: NKP_Vet

Please do not discuss non-Catholic groups on a caucus thread. I’d really like the thread to remain useful.


29 posted on 10/10/2018 10:34:44 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: NorthMountain
So you have resorted to shouting now?

Simply going back to whatever it is that you feel to be "Traditional Catholicism" WILL NOT HELP, unless we also take serious, meaningful, effective steps to keep sodomites, heretics, and infidels OUT of the clergy and religious life.

Are you kidding?

This is how "Traditional Catholicism" handled sodomite clergy:

Here’s how one saintly pope would clean up gay orgies at the Vatican

FYI: Pope St Pius V was what you call a "traditional Catholic".

30 posted on 10/10/2018 10:52:26 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: NorthMountain
Here’s how one saintly pope would clean up gay orgies at the Vatican

Working link.

31 posted on 10/10/2018 10:57:07 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
Are you kidding?

I'm dead serious. "Traditional Catholicism", if that's what you call what was practiced in the 19th and 20th Centuries before V-2, absolutely DID NOT keep the sodomites, heretics, and infidels out of the clergy and the orders. It most certainly DID NOT properly raise and educate the malefactors who committed Vatican II. That you have to go back to Pius V more or less proves my point.

32 posted on 10/10/2018 11:23:44 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: NorthMountain

Do you think the Church can ever keep sodomites out of the clergy? Despite the destruction of Sodom and, later, Pope St. Pius V’s mandate?

The article posted was titled, “RIP, Vatican II Catholicism (1962-2018)”.

What are your thoughts on Vatican II, itself? Can you stay on topic?


33 posted on 10/10/2018 11:43:10 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
If you want to stay on topic, don't go back five centuries. YOU brought up Pius V, not me.

We're talking about Vatican II, and necessarily the 2 or 3 generations that preceded it and PRODUCED it. You have yet to address the fact that Vatican II grew out of the "Traditional Catholicism" of the early-mid XX Century. You have yet to deal with the fact that all of the problems, and all of the troublemakers, that made Vatican II and came out of Vatican II, sprouted and grew in the "Traditional Catholicism" that preceded it. Vatican II DID NOT HAPPEN IN A VACUUM.

Do you think the Church can ever keep sodomites out of the clergy?

100%? Of course not. That's no excuse for covering up all the sodomites, heretics, and infidels. Find them and expel them. We MUST do a better job of priestly and religious formation, a better job of catechesis, a better job of adult theological education, than the "Traditional Catholicism" of the early-mid XX Century did. The educational disaster that followed Vatican II does not excuse the educational failures that preceded it. The two condemn each other; the latter produced the former.

34 posted on 10/10/2018 11:54:24 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: ebb tide

https://www.gloria.tv/video/VF94PrnuJ9WY2VKP4fU2pMrLS

Regarding Michael J. Matt ~ he crafted an excellent video, I was very impressed. I viewed dozens of his videos over the years; this one however, should be included in his Top Five! Stellar, highly recommended.


35 posted on 10/10/2018 11:57:51 AM PDT by heterosupremacist (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.)
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To: NorthMountain
The Holy Mass, codified by Pope St. Pius V, was in universal use until VC II. There are no “degrees” of traditional Catholicism, whether it was in the 1500’s or 1950’s.

After VC II, Paul VI suppressed that Mass and mandated Bugnini’s Mass.

What followed is not traditional Catholicism.

36 posted on 10/10/2018 12:00:50 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
That's all very well and good ... and irrelevant.

Bugnini’s Mass

Bugnini was raised, educated, ordained, further educated, and consecrated a bishop in "Traditional Catholicism".

Montini, who would become Paul VI, was raised, educated, ordained, further educated, and consecrated a bishop in "Traditional Catholicism".

You keep proving my point.

Thank you.

Vatican II did not happen in a vacuum.

37 posted on 10/10/2018 12:05:57 PM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: NorthMountain
Bugnini was raised, educated, ordained, further educated, and consecrated a bishop in "Traditional Catholicism".

So was the Catholic Augustinian, Fr. Martin Luther.

38 posted on 10/10/2018 12:15:09 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide
Brother Martin didn't attend Vatican II.

We're talking about Vatican II.

Try staying on topic.

39 posted on 10/10/2018 12:17:04 PM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: ebb tide
In case you missed the point:

You're complaining about Paul VI, and Abp. Bugnini, and the "New Mass".

I reminded you of where Montini and Bugnini came from.

VATICAN II DID NOT HAPPEN IN A VACUUM.

The rot which exploded in Vatican II festered and suppurated in the "Traditional Catholicism" of the XIX and early-mid XX Centuries.

The "Traditional Catholicism" of the future, if it is to be any better than the "Traditional Catholicism" of the past that produced Vatican II, must learn from history. The first step is admitting that the history exists. I urge you to take that first step.

40 posted on 10/10/2018 12:21:46 PM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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