Posted on 10/02/2018 5:51:36 PM PDT by marshmallow
YAOUNDÉ, Cameroon - Catholic leaders in the Ivory Coast are warning against preachers spreading a so-called “prosperity Gospel” - which often includes giving large sums of money with a promise of a heavenly financial blessing in return.
Nigerian preacher Chris Oyakhilome is an example, promising that “your miracle is in your offering” and that if a person is in financial difficulty or suffering from disease, they must give generously to his ministry to receive their needed “miracle.”
“All giving is a demonstration of our faith in God and his word,” he said in a podcast widely distributed in western Africa. Oyakhilome also said believers should give generously, because it will become a pathway to wealth, health and good luck.
“Those who sow a lot will reap even more later,” he said.
The phenomenon was discussed during the first congress of the Reflection and Production Cell of Ivory Coast Theologians (CEREPTI), which took place Sep. 11-14 in Yamoussoukro.
Bishop Ignace Bessi Dogbo of Katiola, the president of the bishops’ conference in the Ivory Coast, denounced the influence such preachers were having even in the Catholic Church, and called on Catholic theologians to effectively present the “true Gospel of Christ” in the face of “the excesses and deviations which constitute an affront to Catholic orthodoxy and orthopraxy.”
The bishop said Catholic theologians had a duty to face up to the “heresies” which threaten Catholic identity - heresies promoted by “communities which mushroom everywhere by road sides claiming to be Christian, but which deny the centrality of the Cross, and preach that prosperity could come like a magic wand.”
Dogbo called on the theologians to work with the country’s bishops to constitute a rampart against these excesses, and to be true promoters of Catholic doctrine.
(Excerpt) Read more at cruxnow.com ...
“And the Pope and Bishops didn’t stop it either ………...”
How would they have done that? Some men caught selling indulgences were imprisoned. What more could you do?
Why don’t our authorities stop murders? How about assaults? How about drug dealing? You can only do so much to stop people from committing crimes.
“I agree that the Church was responsible for those abuses, but I think what Vlad is trying to relay is that the “sale of indulgences” was not (and is still not) an official teaching of the Catholic Church.”
You use - and wisely so - the word “abuse”. Think about it. There’s a difference between “use” and “abuse”. Use is what the Church authorizes - the standard usage. Abuse is NOT what the Church authorizes. No abuse of indulgences (and abuse would include selling indulgences) was authorized by the Church. No selling of indulgences was authorized by the Church. Those are just facts - and they’re irrefutable.
To say that the Church “was responsible for those abuses” makes no sense since the Church forbade the abuse of indulgences. Could the Church have done more to stop abuses of indulgences? I suppose so, but what exactly could it do? It was already forbidden to sell indulgences. It was illegal. It was a criminal offense. Even after Trent - when any connection between money (”use” = donations; “abuse” = sales) and indulgences was forbidden, people still sold indulgences and went to prison for it. If I recall correctly, John Tedeschi mentions this fact in his book The Prosecution of Heresy: Collected Studies on the Inquisition in Early Modern Italy. So what exactly could the Church have done other than what it did? It could have done some things sooner, but the Church is often very slow to act on anything.
In any case, the following fact remains unchanged: No matter how much they huff and puff and stamp their feet, no anti-Catholic here or anywhere else has been able to post a single Church document that shows the Church wanted indulgences to be abused. EVER.
That won’t change.
“Sure vlad!”
And you’ll keep doing it since you’ll fail at proving your claim.
“did, Rome ever return the 2/3 of the money Albrecht and Johann Tetzel raised by selling the Jubilee Indulgence?? “
Money that was donated went to the causes to which it was designated. How do you return money that no longer exists because it was spent? How do you return money to an unknown donor in a foreign country?
Do you guys ever think before you post?
Ah but it was accepted and not refused.
Sure vlad!
Vlad, I get the distinction you are making, but the Churchmen are responsible for their actions. The Church is responsible as long as it was allowed to continue.
I'm not excusing the abuses by those in the Church, but until you show proof that the Church ever officially taught that a way to get an indulgence is to give the Church money (in any way), you don't have a leg to stand on.
I was hoping to provide clarity here. Carry on.
Ok; but OMLY if you will...
...show me where the Bible teaches saying prayers, etc obtains an indulgence for a departed soul; first.
Yet...
Every Catholic KNOWS that to be 'really' sure; they'd BETTER serve MARY; or ELSE!!!
26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.
Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp
Translation: "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."
For THAT 'crime'?
Or something else?
And only 'some'???
One can sure as HELL! increase the PENALTY for those crimes and thus reduce the chance that any others might think about committing the 'crime' in the future!
Nope.
The 'abuse' comes in where the Church teaches that an 'indulgence'; of ANY kind; is going to sway what GOD is going to do!
Do YOU ever think after WE post?
I have said repeatedly that I am not interested in the Catholic vs Protestant “debates” here. My point for posting in this thread was to refute that Church teaching involves the sale of indulgences.
Oh.
You merely want to tease the dog as you walk by the fence.
I see.
Besides, saying that I wish to tease others would be mind reading.
“Ah but it was accepted and not refused.”
Why would a donation to a worthy cause be refused?
“but the Churchmen are responsible for their actions. The Church is responsible as long as it was allowed to continue.”
Are some Churchmen churchmen or are they the Church? Your comment isn’t making sense. The Church did not “allow it to continue”. It happened even when they prohibited it and people were imprisoned over it. How is that allowing it?
That means the authorities in America are responsible for all the murders, thefts, rapes and so on - according to your logic. After all they’re not stopping these things from happening.
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