Posted on 08/07/2018 3:51:25 AM PDT by Sontagged
John MacArthur has stated that one can take the mark of the beast, worshiping Satan and his image, and still be saved.
The Bible says the exact opposite.
He is exposed here as condemning himself unwittingly.
His friend and partner Phil Johnson of Grace to You along with Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio and Fighting for the Faith also join in condemning MacArthur.
This is the fruit of personal favoritism; blind irrationality. John MacArthur propagates a damnable false teaching that is simply a lie. His sycophants Phil Johnson, Todd Friel, Justin Peters, etc. have all defended him saying that there is only one unpardonable sin; only one blasphemy of the holy spirit. After this, they all have some explaining to do.
See Jacob Prasch confront this teaching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHvk...
I have removed several posts that violate the guidelines for the Religion Forum.
Many were personal.
Stick with the issues and do not make it personal.
And whenever you post scriptures, ALWAYS give the book chapter and verse(s.)
I don't think anyone is saying they could or would. The question is can anyone who has taken the mark later repent and become a true follower of Christ?
I like what you wrote and no I didn’t know RCC uses 11 Peter to champion their supposed infallibility.
Later, and GBU
Ok, my answers would be long winded and pointless if we both didn’t agree on a Pre-Trib view. You pose some very thoughtful comments on the scenario. Personally, I think that this Mark will be mandatory with the vast majority lining up to take it. Who would want to be without the ability to feed themselves or their family? I agree with you that ALL will have to get it - but those who refuse will lose their heads. It is they who are the people in Revelation 6:11, those beheaded for refusing to worship the beast and had faith in Christ.
Now back to the verse in Revelation 14:9-11 (KJV)
“9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
The Mark is received after worshipping the Beast.
“If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark. . . “ Rev. 14:9
“. . . who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark. . . “ Rev. 14:11
” . . .which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.” Rev. 16:2
” . . . them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. . .” Rev. 19:20
” . . . which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his . . .” Rev. 20:4
In order to NOT be, “. . . be tormented with fire and brimstone . . .for ever and ever . . .” you cannot receive the mark.
Regarding “and”. Refer to Mark 16:16 and what it says.
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned”
Most people would read that as saying belief ‘and’ baptism is necessary for salvation. Yet, baptism isn’t mentioned as a part of being condemned.
Huge article on this verse and the ‘and’ here:
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Mark-16-16.html
I think it’s very very dangerous to suggest to unsaved people (let’s face it, it is they who will have to make this decision) that they can take the Mark, yet still be Saved. You only get the Mark after worship. It’s like a pre-requisite.
Well I wouldn’t go that far.
The enemy loves nothing better than to have Christian Brethren at each others throats.
I disagree with a lot of MacArthur’s messages and the way he goes about explaining his stances. On some topics, he’s solid. On Salvation, he makes my skin crawl sometimes - especially when he suggests you can possibly lose salvation. Thus the Calvinist & Lordship Salvation accusations fly when he goes into that realm.
Jude 24:
“To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy.
John 10:28-29
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand”
Maybe my #156 explains my stance?
I don’t think the Mark is given until worship is given to the beast.
I’m not dogmatic on it, because it hasn’t happened yet - but we are warned all throughout Revelation: Do Not Take the Mark of The Beast! (Though that warning is meant for Tribulation dwellers, not Christians living during the Age of Grace)
To be clear, Calvinist don’t believe a saved person can lose their salvation. And Lordship Salvation is not Calvinism.
I agree.
Those are labels tied to MacArthur by his detractors.
Okay, thank you.
That is not what he said. He said that it's possible that unbelievers could take the Mark of the Beast and later repent and be saved and become Christians. You may disagree with that, but it's hardly the theological slam-dunk that you want it to be. It's not nearly as disqualifying as bearing false witness, as you have done repeatedly on this thread.
The Sword of the Spirit is a dagger, not a broadsword. Use it with care and precision rather than just waiving it around.
Once Saved Always Saved says “If you get Saved, it cannot be reversed no matter what happens after that event”. You can leave the faith but you are still Saved.
"Once saved, always saved" is usually just a simplistic summary of Perseverance of the Saints. There are people who believe you can leave the faith but you are still saved, but the divide seems to be more along the Lordship/No Lordship lines. Even that is an imperfect dividing line.
Not to be a fly in the ointment here, but Revelation 13:16 says, "Also it (the second beast) causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead...". I read this and think not everyone will have a choice in the matter. Children? Elderly? Disabled? Of course no one should be encouraged to take the mark but it may not be a voluntary thing. Certainly no one should worship the beast!
I think this is what MacArthur is addressing - that anyone who truly repents and comes to faith in Jesus Christ during the Tribulation will not be turned away. God alone sees the heart and knows the difference between faked or genuine faith. We already know that great multitudes of people from every tribe, nation, tongue and people will come out of the Tribulation and be counted as the redeemed. Satan will never prevail over the mercy, grace, and will of God.
I also disagree with MacArthur on some of his teaching. I used to think he did preach “Lordship Salvation” and I know he is accused of that still. But the more time I took in listening to him and reading his writings, the clearer it became that he wasn’t really preaching you HAVE TO make Jesus the Lord of your life or you won’t be saved. I haven’t read anything from him that says you can “lose your salvation” once you are born again. If you have something of his that says that, please reference and quote it.
Your post 166 is very well reasoned and there is much there to agree with. I do have some comments for it which I’ll provide when I have a bit more time on my hands....
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Your post was removed. Several instances of making it personal.
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