Did Luther say, “Be a sinner and sin boldly”?

https://web.archive.org/web/20140528104851/http://tquid.sharpens.org/sin_boldly.htm ^ | 2005 | James Swan

[Luircin]

Let me ask a simpler question.

How does one attain salvation?

[MHGinTN]

During the Age of Grace, there is no distinction between Greek and Jew (Greek taken to represent gentiles). The Prophecies of Daniel were to the Jews. The gap between the sixty-ninth week and the seventieth week (ALL the weeks were for the Jews) is only hinted at in The OT. Many err by trying to fit Christianity into the prophecies given to The People (the Hebrews). As the Spirit told Daniel:

9:24 24 Seventy weeks have been decreed concerning your people and your holy city: to restrain transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for lawlessness, to establish everlasting righteousness, to conclude vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Am I saying do not ever apply what is in the OT to Christianity? Heaven forbid! I am cautioning that going too far with application leads to obstinate and exclusive rigor.

[MHGinTN]

The great lie : salvation comes “through the Church which is his body.” That lie is so subtle that it not only conflates the ORG with the actual whole body of believers, not an org, but the lie also asserts boldly that salvation comes through the institutional org! (Org rhymes with Borg, BTW)

[ebb tide]

Ask Luircin.

[boatbums]

Okay, "about" 2000, "about" 3000...what is the gospel you preach and why all the mystery? I hope you know that that is the way cults go about luring gullible people in.

Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ. (II Cor. 4:2-6)

[metmom]

I’m asking YOU.

Answer it please.

If Leo X were now your pope instead of Francis, would accept him or reject him?

ANd I[’m not asking if you’d prefer him over Francis. I’m asking that if here were your pope as Francis is, legitimately elected by the college of cardinals as the pope, would you accept him or not?

[Luircin]

Probably something to do with some Caths getting sick of being asked questions involving simple logic that they can’t answer without looking like obvious hypocrites.

Because Leo X used the services of John Tetzel, who preached that buying an indulgence could forgive the sin of raping the virgin Mary. (Tetzel said it, not me.)

Because Leo X had whorehouses just for priests in the Vatican.

Because Leo X left the Vatican bankrupt.

But Luther opposed Leo X and all these wicked things.

And some Catholics just can’t admit that Luther was right about anything because it would shatter their vain self image.

So they can’t answer that, because they are either de facto supporting Vatican whores and being allowed to buy your way out of raping Mary...

... or supporting Luther, who is apparently much worse in their eyes. But they dare not admit it.

At least that’s my best guess.

[ebb tide]

At least that’s my best guess.

You did a whole lot of talking; but you guessed wrong.

Feel free to tell metmom why I don't answer your question.

[Elsie]

Looks like the SAME thing to me!

---

"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."

--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)

 

 

How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Reformulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the head through the Church which is his body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on Earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men" (CCC 846-48)

 

Pick one.

[ebb tide]

History presents few characters that have suffered more senseless misrepresentation, even bald caricature, than Tetzel. "Even while he lived stories which contained an element of legend gathered around his name, until at last, in the minds of the uncritical Protestant historians, he became the typical indulgence-monger, upon whom any well-worn anecdote might be fathered" (Beard, "Martin Luther", London, 1889, 210). For a critical scholarly study which shows him in a proper perspective, he had to wait the researches of our own time, mainly at the hands of Dr. Nicholas Paulus, who is closely followed in this article. In the first place, his teaching regarding the indulgences for the living was correct. The charge that the forgiveness of sins was sold for money regardless of contrition or that absolution for sins to be committed in the future could be purchased is baseless. An indulgence, he writes, can be applied only "to the pains of sin which are confessed and for which there is contrition". "No one", he furthermore adds, "secures an indulgence unless he have true contrition". The confessional letters (confessionalia) could of course be obtained for a mere pecuniary consideration without demanding contrition. But such document did not secure an indulgence. It was simply a permit to select a proper confessor, who only after a contrite confession would absolve from sin and reserved cases, and who possessed at the same time facilities to impart the plenary indulgence (Paulus, "Johann Tetzel", 103).

Johann Tetzel

[Elsie]

Because Leo X used the services of John Tetzel, who preached that buying an indulgence could forgive the sin of raping the virgin Mary. (Tetzel said it, not me.)

The Bible's Mary or Rome's Mary?

[ebb tide]

Wanna talk about her?

Sure!

6 Beautiful Quotes on Mary You Won’t Believe Are From Martin Luther

[ealgeone]

And there is a difference!

[ebb tide]

What’s the difference between Luther’s Mary and Rome’s Mary?

[boatbums]

Sure! 6 Beautiful Quotes on Mary You Won’t Believe Are From Martin Luther

Help me out here, ET, so this week you like Luther???

[ebb tide]

Luther was a solid, Catholic priest, until Satan won him over.

[delchiante]

Same way for all.

How does one attain sanctification?

[Luircin]

Oh, I guessed the REAL reason you refused to answer, not the puny excuse you’re using now.

So by defending Tetzel, I guess you’re in favor of the sale of indulgences and talking about raping Mary.

Or was Luther right to oppose that?

[Luircin]

Answer the question. If someone asked you how to obtain salvation what wouls you say?

[ealgeone]

It’s Rome’s Mary....the Marian dogmas are not Biblical no matter who espouses them.