Do Indulgences Deny the Gospel?

Alpha and Omega Ministries ^ | Published on Jun 27, 2018 | James White

[Mrs. Don-o]

To support the Biblical truth that temporal punishments remain even if eternal punishment is 100% remitted and sins are 100% forgiven, there's this:

"For the one who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there are no exceptions."

"And there are no exceptions."

That's what Col. 3:25 says in my Bible. Please tell me what it says in yours?

Yet it does not follow they are unforgiven. Many, many of these are, explicitly, the forgiven, the "sons", "God's people."

Hebrews 12:5
"For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises everyone He receives as a son."

Zecharia 3:19
This third [of the people]I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, 'They are my people,'
and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'

[ealgeone]

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery.....

10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”] John 8:10-11 NASB

No penance.

No indulgence.

Complete forgiveness.

[boatbums]

Martin Luther's main objection to Indulgences was:

Then in addition, the very profusion of indulgences astonishingly fills up the measure of servile righteousness. Through these nothing is accomplished except that the people learn to fear and flee and dread the penalty of sins, but not the sins themselves. Therefore, the results of indulgences are too little seen but we do see a great sense of self-security and licentious sinning; so much so that, if it were not for the fear of the punishment of sins, nobody would want these indulgences, even if they were free; whereas the people ought rather to be exhorted to love the punishment and embrace the cross. Would that I were a liar when I say that indulgences are rightly so called, for to indulge means to permit, and indulgence is equivalent to impunity, permission to sin, and license to nullify the cross of Christ. Or, if indulgences are to be permitted, they should be given only to those who are weak in faith, that those who seek to attain gentleness and lowliness through suffering, as the Lord here says, may not be offended. For, not through indulgences, but through gentleness and lowliness, so says he, is rest for your souls found. But gentleness is present only in punishment and suffering, from which these indulgences absolve us. They teach us to dread the cross and suffering and the result is that we never become gentle and lowly, and that means that we never receive indulgence nor come to Christ. Oh, the dangers of our time! Oh, you snoring priests! Oh, darkness deeper than Egyptian! How secure we are in the midst of the worst of all our evils! (LW 51:31-33).

[ealgeone]

>> "And there are no exceptions."<<

That's what Col. 3:25 says in my Bible. Please tell me what it says in yours?

Again....context is your friend in understanding Scripture. I continue to have to explain this.

22Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. 23Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, 24knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve. 25For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.

The passage has nothing to do with indulgences or penance or purgatory.

[Salvation]

Another reference:

Gospel
Mt 5:20-26
Jesus said to his disciples:
“I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that
of the scribes and Pharisees,
you will not enter into the Kingdom of heaven.

“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors,
You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.
But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother
will be liable to judgment,
and whoever says to his brother, Raqa,
will be answerable to the Sanhedrin,
and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.
Therefore, if you bring your gift to the altar,
and there recall that your brother
has anything against you,
leave your gift there at the altar,
go first and be reconciled with your brother,
and then come and offer your gift.
Settle with your opponent quickly while on the way to court with him.
Otherwise your opponent will hand you over to the judge,
and the judge will hand you over to the guard,
and you will be thrown into prison.
Amen, I say to you,
you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.”

[Salvation]

**Amen, I say to you,
you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.”**

We do have a responsibility to make reparation on earth.

[ealgeone]

There is nothing in the passage you cite that deals with indulgences, penance or purgatory.

[Agamemnon]

As defined in the Modern Catholic Dictionary:

INDULGENCE. "The remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins forgiven as far as their guilt is concerned, which the follower of Christ with the proper dispositions and under certain determined conditions acquires through the intervention of the Church, which, as minister of the redemption, authoritatively dispenses and applies the treasury of the satisfaction won by Christ and the saints" (Pope Paul VI, Apostolic Constitution on Indulgences).

No church "intervenes" between me and my Savior, Jesus Christ. A church building is a place of worship, not a castle for a quasi-governmental institution that takes tribute in exchange for granting forgiveness. I don't need a "middle man" to shake me down or to be my "protection." It is a Protestant perspective vs. a Catholic perspective.

Continuing quoting from your Modern Catholic Dictionary:

As originally understood, an indulgence was a mitigation of the severe canonical penances imposed on the faithful for grave sins. The term "indulgence" remained, however, even after these extreme penalties were discontinued. Yet until the Second Vatican Council, the norm for determining the effectiveness of an indulgenced practice was its relationship to the ancient canonical penances, as seen in the numbers, so many years or so many days, attached to every official listing of partial indulgences.

Posting heavenly bail has a long history in Catholicism.

All this was changed by Pope Paul VI. From now on the measure of how efficacious an indulgenced work is depends on two things: the supernatural charity with which the indulgenced task is done, and the perfection of the task itself.

Another innovation is that partial and plenary indulgences can always be applied to the dead by way of suffrage, asking God to remit their sufferings if they are still in purgatory.

You need to take into consideration the historical origin of the concept of paying indulgences, and how the system was driven by canonically corrupt political theocrats (especially under the Medici family Popes) who set the pace for buying your loved ones off the Purgatorial treadmill. Sounds like a perfect pay-to-play scenario for those who think they can game the "heavenly" [man-instituted] forgiveness "system."

Time to pay the Godfather for his protection. Drop what you've got in the indulgence box just behind the last pew.

Pay enough and maybe you'll get a weather protected crypt in the center of the southerly Cathedral transcept, complete with handsomely painted life-like effigy.

Pay enough and before too long maybe you won't even have to be concerned too much about the plenary price for sin Christ already paid through His intercessory death and resurrection.

If you really want the church to intercede on your behalf to the Godfather, you'll just have to pay up.

How do you think all those marvelously ornate cathedrals were built across Europe in the middle ages anyway?

It is not my intent tear you apart personally. I hold in total disdain the concept of paying indulgences. It is my intent to quote from a significant Catholic resource to show that the meaning of the the term "indulgence" is no different than it has ever been historically understood -- even as affirmed by the Modern Catholic Dictionary.

Respectfully, FReegards!

[Salvation]

No money is involved in current indulgences.....just prayers.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Just a quick one before I sleep—

I suggest you go to one of the searchable online bible sources like BibleGateway and look up keyword - church -

There’s a whole lot there that shows how Christ gives His Church the authority of the “keys” found also in Isaiah -— do look up “keys” in Isaiah -— to rule His household.

G’night, bro! And God bless!

[Agamemnon]

No money is involved in current indulgences.....just prayers.

Maybe not in your parish, but one can only wonder what went down in the parishes who "ministered" to La Cosa Nostra.

FReegards!

[Mrs. Don-o]

And respectfully, the key here is context.

[ealgeone]

And respectfully, the key here is context.

You want to cite context....yet you continue to ignore it when citing Scripture.

[boatbums]

If Purgatory didn’t exist, would there still be the need for Indulgences or do they go hand in hand?

[Salvation]

Your factual authority is????????

[ealgeone]

Your factual authority is????????

What is your factual authority?

[boatbums]

10. Acts of penance For at least one whole day — Either abstain from unnecessary consumption (smoking, alcohol, etc.);[but necessary consumption is allowed????] — or fast, — or abstain from meat (or other food according to the specific norms of the Bishops' Conferences), and donate a proportionate sum of money to the poor.

So, if I steal money out of someone's pocket, I won't have to apologize and return the money as long as I give up eating meat for a day (I know...I'll have lobster!) and drop the difference in the collection plate (though lobster IS more expensive than a hamburger, uh, oh).

Do people honestly believe God is okay with this scheme??? Wouldn't He rather desire that we make recompense to the one we wronged even if it means embarrassment and determine to not do it again?

[Salvation]

Whacky example is not true.

[boatbums]

I won’t waste my time explaining my beliefs to anyone who will only ignore them and insist their “church” is right about everything - even when those things contradict the Word of God.

[Salvation]

It’s your church, too. If I remember correctly, aren’t you a baptized Catholic? The mark of baptism is indelible — it will always be on your soul, saying you are a Catholic.

Just an inactive one at the present though, corrct???