The humiliation of the Southern Baptist convention

Christianity Today ^ | 22 May 2018 | Al Mohler

[Cronos]

Evangelicals, we can no longer say sexual misconduct is just a Roman Catholic problem. At one of our seminaries, controversy has centered on a president (now former president) whose sermon illustration from years ago included advice that a battered wife remain in the home and the marriage in hope of the conversion of her abusive husband. Other comments represented the objectification of a teenage girl. The issues only grew more urgent with the sense that the dated statements represented ongoing advice and counsel.

..We thought this was a Roman Catholic problem.

..

When people said that evangelicals had a similar crisis coming, it didn’t seem plausible—even to me. I have been president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for 25 years. I did not see this coming.

..We cannot blame a requirement of priestly celibacy. We cannot even point to an organized conspiracy of silence within the denominational hierarchy. No, our humiliation comes as a result of an unorganized conspiracy of silence. Sadly, the unorganized nature of our problem may make recovery and correction even more difficult and the silence even more dangerous.

...This is just a foretaste of the wrath of God poured out. This moment requires the very best of us. The Southern Baptist Convention is on trial, and our public credibility is at stake. May God have mercy on us all.

[af_vet_1981]

They don’t have authority; no apostolic succession; no reason to listen to them.

[Mr Rogers]

“...no reason to listen to them.”

Good point. Listen to the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis instead. And to the bishops who hid pedophiles and homosexuals. THEY “have authority” & “apostolic succession”! Pope “I speak for Christ” Francis!

[HarleyD]

While I have the utmost respect for Al Mohler, a few examples would have been helpful in this article. I have no idea what he is talking about. The bureacratic structure of the Catholic priesthood is far different than Protestant churches. To my knowledge we don’t shuffle bad pastors around nor excuse their behavior.

[af_vet_1981]

He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Luke, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verse sixteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Cronos]

if it was written by Alfred Mohler and published in “Christianity today” I seriously doubt it is a hit piece. The article also doesn’t have that tone

[Cronos]

“claim to abide by them. “ — that’s the thing, anyone can claim it, but there is no definition that rejecting the Nicene Creed removes a group from the evangelicals. That’s why the Oneness Pentecostals reject the Trinity. And they are evangelical

[SaraJohnson]

People put too much spiritual power and unearned respect for high character into church figures and that makes them easy victims for abuse. What’s done in the dark should be brought to the light and evil is shattered. Until recently, we have not acknowledged that men and boys are victims, too. We do not support them.

We should also know that powerful ministers and their families are open season for Satan and we should pray that God give the strength to recognize it and cast it out on the power and authority of Jesus.

[Cronos]

It depends on the "Protestant" group - we need to stop clubbing various belief systems under that umbrella -- for instance the Lutherans and Anglicans are undoubtedly "Protestant" yet have, as you put it a "bureaucratic structure" of priests/vicars/bishops.

Even the Methodists have this

For Baptist and SBC in particular, there are other institutions and also DIFFERENT issues -- decentralization brings different issues from centralization

[Cronos]

A recent Australian royal commission on institutional child abuse found that this was spread across yeshives to mosques to buddhists temples to catholic churchs to baptist churches etc. - we all have problems around this

To Mr. Mohler's credit, he has tackled this head-on and is saying "lets clean our own house" - a very creditworthy point of view.

[Cronos]

A very good point. It’s like the vicar’s wife in Victorian novels - no matter what she does, she will be criticized.

[EliRoom8]

Regarding your many posts on this thread, I just say bingo, bingo, bingo!

But this guy you are arguing with has the perspicacity of an eight year old.

[kosciusko51]

My original point was JWs are not evangelical, and you appear to agree to that point. I’m not going to rehash this again.

[Cronos]

Yes, your original post 23 was that

But in post 29 you said that you didn't view Pentecostals as evangelicals.

That's why I answered that anyone can claim to be evangelical as the only consistent defintion is only grace and only bible

So, an evangelical group that rejects the Nicene Creed still remains evangelical. That’s why the Oneness Pentecostals reject the Trinity. And they are evangelical

[kosciusko51]

You are the one that brought up OP. I did not, and I am not going to discuss this anymore, other than to say I stand by my opinion.

[HarleyD]

I’m not sure how Lutherans or Anglicans institutions are structured or ministers appointed. I know that (at least in the old days) if a Southern Baptist minister was ever found out to abuse a child, he would be drummed out of the ministry. Being “reassigned” would not be an option.

Now that being said, I will admit that these are very strange days when the focus is solely upon “love” and “forgiveness”. We have lost the concept of “sin” and “evil”. So now-a-days it’s anything goes. I wouldn’t be a bit surprise if some wacky congregation would feel “compassion” for a corupt minister.

[daniel1212]

it’s kind of sad that you instantly look for the smote in your brother’s eye. tsk tsk

What? A poster defending a church with a ongoing sordid history of sexual abuse, mostly of boys, and organized cover ups and recalcitrance launches an attack on Southern Baptists, and then self-righteously accuses one of looking for the smote in your brother’s eye since he critques it as a poor job of damage control?

You are the one defending a church, and throwing stones from a glass house in posting the article.

[daniel1212]

There is no deviating. Mohler only alludes to what I said, (surely and sadly there is much, maybe as much, sexual abuse in Prot churches, if not predominantly of the same kind, but the articles does not mention that while Forgotten Study: Abuse in School 100 Times Worse than by Priests), but what you selected as details was "a sermon illustration from years ago included advice that a battered wife remain in the home and the marriage in hope of the conversion of her abusive husband," as if that was such that "an unorganized conspiracy of silence" referred to.

But perhaps you chose this as an indirect means of attacking Protestantism, whatever that may include, rather than a more blatant offensive which might provoke a in-kind response. For which there is plenty of ammo, sadly.

[daniel1212]

Thanks for playing! Nobody is "denied divorce" "in Rome," in particular not abused spouses. What they are denied is divorce and remarriage, and they are denied that by the direct words of Our Lord in the Gospels.

What? Rome does not deny church-recognized divorce as a valid option for a RC in a canonical marriage? Or do you think I meant she uses a shotgun to prevent any divorce of a valid marriage?

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death." Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law.- CCC 2382; 2384

[Cronos]

You read too much into this.

Firstly, there is no generic "Protestantism" - Lutherans are far closer to Catholic belief in terms of Baptism, Priesthood etc. than Baptists are, while Unitarians are even further away.

Secondly, these are human failings, not theological questions - I see no reason why the points raised by Mr Mohler have an impact on the SBC's Christology

[Cronos]

You read too much into this.

Firstly, there is no generic "Protestantism" - Lutherans are far closer to Catholic belief in terms of Baptism, Priesthood etc. than Baptists are, while Unitarians are even further away.

Secondly, these are human failings, not theological questions - I see no reason why the points raised by Mr Mohler have an impact on the SBC's Christology