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Salvation and Church
OSV.com ^
| 03-14-18
| Msgr. Charles Pope
Posted on 04/21/2018 9:30:28 AM PDT by Salvation
Salvation and Church The teaching of no salvation outside the Church is important and one that must rightly be understood
Msgr. Charles Pope
3/14/2018
Question: I hear the Catholic Church teaches there is no salvation outside the Church. This would seem to condemn most to hell. Or am I missing something? — Name, location withheld
Answer: It is in fact a doctrine of the Church often repeated by the Fathers of the Church and taught formally. However, it must be understood properly.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say by way of explanation:
“‘Outside the Church there is no Salvation.’ ... Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church ... is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church” (CCC, Nos. 846-847).
This much is sure: Whoever is in heaven was saved by Jesus Christ in and through his Body the Church. But, as we know, there are many barriers to people fully understanding that the Church is the sole and necessary means for salvation, and thus, simply being outside the Church usually does not alone bring condemnation.
God can and, it would seem, does draw others unto himself in ways not always known to us. All of this can console us and bring an understanding that the teaching “outside the Church there is no salvation” is not understood absolutely.
But this consolation must not be the source of letting our missionary zeal wane. While it is possible to be saved beyond the Church, sacraments and explicit faith in Christ, it is much more difficult. Consider the following teaching from the Second Vatican Council:
“Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. ... But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom 1:21, 25). Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, ‘Preach the Gospel to every creature’ (Mk 16:16), the Church fosters the missions with care and attention” (Lumen Gentium, No. 16).
And therefore, we see that people often are deceived or let themselves be deceived. So, the fact that people can be saved apart from the Church is not a blank check or presumption that they likely will be saved. It must always be our earnest work to evangelize, for many “prefer the darkness” (see Jn 3:19).
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; salvation; tickytackytrolls
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To: Mark17
Vatican City is certainly polluted with gay sex parties.
To: boatbums
he didnt have to worry that his daddy was in hell because he had made sure his kids were baptized Catholics so he was a good man and would make it to heaven. I believe that is false doctrine. There are some weird beliefs in the OTC. When I was a catholic, my dad told me that if a guy died, fighting for his country, he would go to Heaven. I have no clue where he got that, and dont know if he ever made his peace with God.
There are 6 kids in our family. 4 of us have left the Catholic Church. I was the first to give it up. Praise God for that. 😁
342
posted on
04/22/2018 6:52:47 PM PDT
by
Mark17
(Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
To: Mark17
I believe that is false doctrine. There are some weird beliefs in the OTC. When I was a catholic, my dad told me that if a guy died, fighting for his country, he would go to Heaven. I have no clue where he got that, and dont know if he ever made his peace with God. I think that line of thought may be traced back to Pope Urban II who promised forgiveness of sins for those who fought and died in the Crusades. Sort of a Roman Catholic version of Jihad.
To: infool7
The rage must all be in your own head, dear brother in Christ Jesus.
I have only love for you in the hopes that you might more fully share in the joy of our Blessed Lord and Savior
***
Mmmm-hm, if you say so.
Though if you really consider me a brother in Christ, Matthew 5:22 and the way you kept calling all of us ‘fools’ upthread kind of makes me wonder.
344
posted on
04/22/2018 7:35:07 PM PDT
by
Luircin
To: boatbums
And that was just sad in every way, both the fact that the kid’s father died an atheist (barring, of course, a last-minute conversion, which is to be devoutly hoped for), and the fact that Francis’s answer was just WRONG.
You can tell the truth about the Lord while being compassionate still! Sheesh.
345
posted on
04/22/2018 7:37:18 PM PDT
by
Luircin
To: metmom
There were thousands of tracts. It was the Church that selected the specific tracts and books you call Scripture and it did so by the power of the Holy Spirit after three centuries of painstaking research and verification of the sacred oral tradition. Besides it was the Church that assembled the books in their current structure and form. The Holy Spirit that guided the Church did not suddenly vanish with the heretical break from the Church that now has broken apart to some 30,000 heretical particles and sub particles. Yes, The Church established the books in Scripture that was authenticated as the Word of God.
To: Steelfish; Elsie
It was the Church that selected the specific tracts and books you call Scripture and it did so by the power of the Holy Spirit after three centuries of painstaking research and verification of the sacred oral tradition
Naughty Steelfish. It is always wrong to steel Gods glory and claim it for yourself.
God was inspiring and preserving His Word before Christ was born.
The Holy Spirit that guided the Church did not suddenly vanish with the heretical break from the Church
He guided men. He inspired men. The Holy Spirit didnt leave the church. The Roman church left God and Christ removed its lampstand... starting in Revelation.
No worries though! God has always selected for Himself those that did not bow the knee to Baal. Blessed Father Luther, for example.
Also, God raised up leaders to revisit the canon of Scripture and correct Romes errors.
To: aMorePerfectUnion
How cute! “The Holy Spirit did not leave the Church, the Church left the Holy Spirit”
Tell that the the thousands of Protestant theologians who have converted to the Church!
To: Steelfish; ealgeone
Tell that the the thousands of Protestant theologians who have converted
Thousands of Protestant theologians?
Please do share your list of thousands of Protestant theologians.
Try to exclude liberals, if you would, since we dont know if they are believers.
Remember, they must all be Protestants and theologians.
I will accept a minimum of 2 thousand Protestant theologians to fulfill your claim, to make it easier.
Post your list and a well take a look at them.
Id post a list of hundreds of millions of souls who left Rome, but theres a bandwidth problem.
Comment #350 Removed by Moderator
To: aMorePerfectUnion; Steelfish
steelfish continues to labor under the false impression that numbers somehow impress God.
Numerous examples from the OT and NT indicate otherwise.
It is usually a small remnant that is truly faithful and that pleases God.
The question is.....are you in that remnant?
To: Luircin
You are correct however I highly doubt anyone could find about two thousand people that would "call a pile of fecal matter chocolate ice cream" but I would bet that you could find the six five that do.
352
posted on
04/23/2018 6:23:32 AM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
To: infool7
And you imagine you are due respect? Lol
353
posted on
04/23/2018 6:31:03 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
To: infool7
If only five people say that a pile of shit is a pile of shit, it’s still shit.
So are you afraid of hellfire? After all, you called me a brother and then ranted about me being a fool. As our Lord said, “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, You fool! will be liable to the hell of fire.”
‘liable to the hell of fire.’ That sounds like a mortal sin to me; you better run to the confessional.
354
posted on
04/23/2018 6:36:35 AM PDT
by
Luircin
To: ealgeone; Steelfish
steelfish continues to labor under the false impression that numbers somehow impress God.
100% correct and the main point.
Im asking steely for a list because his claim *doesnt ring true* to me.
It seems youd have to average at least 2 defecting theologians per seminary, which is far from anything Ive read. So Id like to see the data.
Perhaps Im not current with liberal Protestant theologians leaving.
Unfortunately, liberals leaving a liberal seminary doesnt make the case that people who know the Scriptures go to Rome, since liberals dont believe in inspiration of Gods Word. Ergo, they do not know Gods Word well enough that their decision is grounded in truth.
In history, Rome threatened the slaughter of pastors who wouldnt bend the knee to Rome, like Islam does. But of course this is not free will, so that doesnt support his claim either.
Give him time to list at least 2 thousand Protestant theologians and Ill take a look. It should be very interesting. In the end, I am guessing it will use the same math that he used to invent 30,000 denominations.
In the meantime, you are entirely correct that numbers dont matter to God.
To: Luircin
If only five people say that a pile of s**t is a pile of s**t, it’s still s**t. and that is why I replied that you were correct.
Are you unable to read and understand the clear text that is on the screen in front of you? I might also remind you that the religion moderator frowns on potty language on this forum. If you have difficulty refraining from using that kind of language on these threads perhaps you should stick to the caucus threads where you wont get so upset like the other poster that had to have their post removed for name calling me earlier.
I am in no way angry with you my Dear Brother in Christ Jesus but please point out for me in which post that I called you a fool. Mistaken, confused delusional are all possibilities but I specifically endeavor to refrain from such a thing particularly because of the admonishment you mention from our Lord and Savior. If I indeed did call you that then please accept my emphatic apologies and I humbly beg your forgiveness.
I only fervently desire for you to more fully enter into the presence of the Holy Spirit in the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus.
Perhaps we could come to an agreement on what it is that we believe in common. I'll make it easy on you. Could you copy and paste from the text below what it is you agree with?
The Nicene Creed I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
The Ten Commandments: 1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.
The Precepts of the Catholic Church: 1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor.
We must “sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord” (Sunday), as well as the principal feast days, known as Catholic holy days of obligation. This requires attending Mass, “and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.”
2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year. We must prepare for the Eucharist by means of the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession). This sacrament “continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.”
3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season. This “guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord’s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.”
4. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church. "The fourth precept ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.”
5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church. “The fifth precept means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.”
7
356
posted on
04/23/2018 7:26:49 AM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
To: MHGinTN
Whatever gives you that idea?
7
357
posted on
04/23/2018 7:35:00 AM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
To: infool7
Uh-huh. Sorry, when you start copypasting your own earlier posts, there’s no point in continuing.
You may still want to examine your own sins, though, especially the one so blatantly committed on this thread. I may not like you, but that doesn’t mean I want you to go to Hell.
You can have the last word; I’m anklin’.
358
posted on
04/23/2018 7:36:08 AM PDT
by
Luircin
To: infool7
The nicene creed and the 10 commandments are common to all Christians. The precepts of the RC Church? Not so much I find no holy days of obligation listed in Scripture nor do I buy your legalistic man made rules with no basis in Scripture. The Holy Christian and Apostolic Church has nothing to do with Roman Catholicism but you know that. The true Church is the body of believers who have trusted Christ for their salvation and washed their robes in His Blood. Thie Church will be gloriously revealed at Christs coming for His Bride but is not currently visible on earth. I am a member of that Church are you? And I dont mean the heretical social club centered in the Vatican I mean the true church of Jesus Christ. There is a big difference whether you Romans will admit it or not.
359
posted on
04/23/2018 7:44:59 AM PDT
by
Mom MD
( .)
To: Mom MD
The nicene creed and the 10 commandments are common to all Christians. So would you then agree that Catholics(by their stated doctrine) are Christians?
The Holy Christian and Apostolic Church has nothing to do with Roman Catholicism but you know that.
I disagree with that statement you made but then... you know that.
7
360
posted on
04/23/2018 7:55:13 AM PDT
by
infool7
(Observe, Orient, Pray, Decide, Act!(it's an OOPDA loop))
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