Posted on 11/04/2017 12:24:50 PM PDT by Salvation
Question: Are the saints in heaven active in the affairs of Earth? — Robert Bonsignore, Brooklyn, New York
Answer: Yes, we have a lot of evidence for that. But exactly how and to what extent they are aware and active is not fully known to us.
It seems unlikely that the saints can merely look down and watch us as though they were watching a movie, or that they can know our inmost thoughts. Such things are probably beyond their capacity and might even be considered intrusive of our privacy.
It seems safer to assume that the saints are aware of our needs and condition to the degree that God reveals this to them. Thus, if I am asking St. Anthony to pray for me, his capacity to hear my request is facilitated by the Lord and due to the membership both St. Anthony and I have in the Body of Christ. By analogy, the two members of my body that I call my hands can interact by the fact they are coordinated through my head. Jesus is the Head of the Body, the Church and everything in his Body is under his authority and coordinated by him, including the awareness and communion of various members of the body with each other.
As they say in Texas....all hat...no cattle.
Heck, we haven't even seen the hat! 😂
Heard all about it though!
LOL! So true.
Elsie, you’ve missed an entertaining “hijack thread”!
I hopes this helps to understand the teachings of the Catholic church.
Look at 1 Corinthians 3:14–15: “If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” You see, the Latinate word purgatory means a purgation or burning by fire. Paul in these verses refers to a purgation process whereby a man is saved even though his works are burned away. This is precisely what the Catholic Church teaches. A person at death who still has personal faults is prevented from entering into heaven because he is not completely purified. He must go through a period of purgation in order to be made clean, for nothing unclean will enter heaven (cf. Rev. 21:27).
Furthermore, the New Testament shows a continuity with this idea. For example, Matthew 12:32 says that some people who sin “will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” This suggests that there are some sins that will be forgiven in the age to come. If there is no purification after death, then this passage doesn’t make much sense.
On the contrary, the idea of purgatory, when properly understood, is entirely consistent with the love of God. God wants us to be perfect (cf. Matt. 5:48). If we are not perfected by the time we die, we will be perfected in purgatory. He loves us too much to allow us to be less than what he created us to be. Purgatory is not about an angry God inflicting punishment upon his creatures. It is about a loving Father who “disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness” (Heb. 12:10).
If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins 27but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.t 28Anyone who rejects the law of Moses* is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.u 29Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26
So be perfect,* just as your heavenly Father is perfect.d (Matthew 5:48 )
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-purgatory-found-in-the-bible
Is Paul in purgatory? Or Peter?
That's not true at all...Protestants and Baptists before them have always believed in purification after death...
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Hey, we know you don't know what God says and you are only repeating what your religion wants you to say...I posted the scripture so you will no longer have any reason to misquote the truth...
Once a person calls on the Lord for salvation, our foundation is laid...Paul says He has laid the foundation...The foundation is those words he gave us to live by...
Now it is then up to us how we build upon that foundation...It may be hay, stubble, silver or gold...Whatever it is, it is going thru some serious scrutiny by Jesus when we die...
The result of the scrutiny is the record of the bad stuff will be destroyed, wiped away...The good stuff stays and we will receive a reward for the good stuff...The more that stays, the more rewards we will get.
What is on our record that is bad will be destroyed and we will forfeit rewards, YET we will still be saved...We will not be saved by fire...We will be saved AS BY FIRE...
There will be no punishment...There will be no pain...There will be no fire...There will be no waiting period...We are saved 'as by fire'...As if a fire burned our bad works up...
This purification takes place in heaven, immediately after death...Nobody's prayers will have any effect...We don't need them...We're on our way to heaven and we just need a little cleaning up before we step into the throne room...THAT'S WHY JESUS DIED...So he could put our sins on HIM while putting his righteousness on US...
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Do really think God is going to burn people who have the Holy Ghost living inside them do you???
I do understand the Roman false teaching of purgatory.
Look at 1 Corinthians 3:14–15: “If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
ONLY about what a man does to either glorify God or not. Absolutely nothing about sins, nor "purification.
You see, the Latinate word purgatory means a purgation or burning by fire. Paul in these verses refers to a purgation process whereby a man is saved even though his works are burned away. This is precisely what the Catholic Church teaches.
Yet the verse has nothing to do with purification. It is judgement of a life wasted. You are posting a verse not about a false doctrine to try to justify the doctrine. Doesn't work that way. If only you'd have started with what God said first, instead of starting with a man-made belief and trying to make scripture teach it...
A person at death who still has personal faults is prevented from entering into heaven because he is not completely purified. He must go through a period of purgation in order to be made clean, for nothing unclean will enter heaven (cf. Rev. 21:27).
Not in Scripture. Christ died for ALL the sins of those who have come to faith in Him. Not just some. Every believer will stand there as the "righteousness of Christ", fully accepted by God.
Furthermore, the New Testament shows a continuity with this idea.
It does not.
For example, Matthew 12:32 says that some people who sin “will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” This suggests that there are some sins that will be forgiven in the age to come. If there is no purification after death, then this passage doesn’t make much sense.
It may suggest it to you, but it doesn't say it. Simply wishogesis.
On the contrary, the idea of purgatory, when properly understood, is entirely consistent with the love of God. God wants us to be perfect (cf. Matt. 5:48).
It is inconsistent with the Gospel and Sacrifice of the Savior. It is perfectly consistent with man-made works.
If we are not perfected by the time we die, we will be perfected in purgatory.
False.
He loves us too much to allow us to be less than what he created us to be. Purgatory is not about an angry God inflicting punishment upon his creatures. It is about a loving Father who “disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness” (Heb. 12:10).
False again. He cares enough to have sent His Son to SAVE men through His sacrifice.
If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins 27but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.t 28Anyone who rejects the law of Moses* is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.u 29Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26
It's too late tonight to take time to correct your misunderstanding of this passage.
ADSUM, may your eyes be opened to the incredible Gift of God that is greater than human works and religions and self-righteousness. I hope you turn to Him alone before it is too late.
I don't believe him on either count...
What is the biblical justification for hijacking threads?
Presuming the poster is a he.....I don’t believe him/her either.
I have no idea why a poster hijacked the thread and made it all about himself and his education, but it was entertaining.
As for the Bible, I doubt that poster knew much about that book. Perhaps you will ask him.
Which is the first of all the commandments?” 29Jesus replied, “The first is this: ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone! 30
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’j 31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”k 32
Love your enemies!
The Catholic Church teaches that God’s love overcomes evil and causes a real change in us. This idea is a hallmark of John Paul II’s theology: “Especially through his lifestyle and through his actions, Jesus revealed that love is present in the world in which we live—an effective love, a love that addresses itself to man and embraces everything that makes up his humanity. This love makes itself particularly noticed in contact with suffering, injustice, and poverty—in contact with the whole historical ‘human condition,’ which in various ways manifests man’s limitation and frailty, both physical and moral. It is precisely the mode and sphere in which love manifests itself that in biblical language is called ‘mercy’” (Dives in Misericordia, 3).
It takes at least two to tangle. I also expect to find the entertainment here shortly after I discover the biblical justification for hijacking threads.
They were not faithful followers and 'That' is not when and why the crowd left...Would seem you guys would acquaint yourselves a little more with scripture before telling us what the bible says and doesn't say...
I do have Jesus - Body and Blood in the Eucharist and the Sacraments.
Yes. Jesus saved us with His sacrifice on the cross.
We can either accept it and live according to God’s will or reject it. Our choice. God does not force us to love Him, nor does He require us to believe His teachings and that of His Holy Catholic Church.
God’s peace be with you.
So I understand you are a theologian...With years of religious education...PHDs...Writes theological literature...And you’re a female??? You wouldn’t be a Lutheran or Methodist Pastress by chance, would you???
This verse is about those who reject Christ and His sacrifice on the Cross....not mortal sins (which is not a NT concept).
If read in context this becomes clear.
If you reject Christ there is no other way to have forgiveness of sins.
In fact, this chapter in Hebrews provides correction for the error of Roman Catholicism where by it is taught by Roman Catholic priest O'Brien in The Faith of Millions" ....the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man—not once but a thousand times!..."
11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Hebrews 10:11-14 NASB
This thread quickly became an embarrassment. I can’t imagine any non-Christian who stumbled upon it ever considering the possibility that Jesus Christ is the Word of God.
So what is your interpretation of the revelation verse where the saints give our prayers to God?
And your reading and understanding are no better than mine.
No one has a right to question my interpretation of scripture.
Love,
O2
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