Posted on 10/11/2017 8:39:37 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
When reading the Book of Job, I’m often struck by the similarities between Job’s friends and Joel Osteen. Granted, Job’s friends probably presented themselves in a much dourer manner than Osteen does. If not in their assumed scowls, it's the content of their unhelpful advice to Job that bears a similarity to the teachings of the smiling author of Your Best Life Now. More accurately, the words of Job’s friends are the opposite side of the same false coin held out by the message of self-idolatrous false-hope preached by Joel Osteen.
Many are familiar with the Biblical story of the ancient patriarch named Job. As way of a brief reminder of the first part of the story, after God allows Satan to afflict Job, three of the miserable man's friends show up. The Bible records, "They made an appointment to come together to come to show him sympathy and comfort (Job 2:11)."
Showing him sympathy and comfort apparently meant scolding him. However, Job rebuffs the lectures from each of his friends, but they persist.
The core of what Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar tell Job is that he needs to humble himself before God and recognize that he's a sinner who is being justly punished. Throughout their harangues, the three claim that the wicked suffer and the righteous live blessed lives. For them, Job's distress is proof that he is being punished by God for unrighteousness. If only he would say/do the right things, he could live his best life again once again be blessed by God.
Reprovingly, Eliphaz tells Job, "The wicked man writhes in pain all his day. ... Because he has stretched out his hand against God and defies the Almighty (Job 15:20, 25)."
Building on Eliphaz's claim, in chapter eighteen Bildad lists a series of unfortunate events, so to speak, and then concludes, "Surely such are the dwellings of the unrighteous, such is the place of him who knows not God (Job 18:21)."
At one point, during the midst of the back and forth between Job and his friends, Eliphaz pleads, "Agree with God, and be at peace; thereby good will come to you (Job 22:21)." His words echo Bildad's promise found in Job 8:5 -- "If you will seek God and plead with the Almighty for mercy, if you are pure and upright, surely then he will rouse himself for you and restore your rightful habitation. And though your beginning was small, your latter days will be very great."
If you haven't already picked up on the similarities between Job's friends and Joel Osteen, you are either unaware of the mega-pastor's teachings or you misunderstand the well-coifed charlatan. Or maybe you do understand Osteen, agree with him, and, hence, don't want to acknowledge that Joel Osteen basically equals Job's friends.
While expressed differently, the worldview of Osteen and the Book of Job's infamous trio is the same -- God is some form of a genie in the bottle, doling out goodies to those who respond the correct way.
The major difference between Osteen and Job's friends is that Osteen rarely mentions personal sin. For Osteen, when he writes -- "There is a seed inside you trying to take root. That’s God trying to get you to conceive. He’s trying to fill you with so much hope and expectancy that the seed will grow and bring forth a tremendous harvest. It’s your time. You may have been sick for a long time, but this is your time to get well. … You may be struggling financially, in all kinds of debt, but this is the time for promotion." -- he's saying that you're not being blessed because you aren't jumping through the right hoops.
For Osteen, jumping through the right hoops doesn't involve any repentance of personal sins or acknowledgment of one's failings before a Holy God. Osteen wants his followers to embrace the belief that if God is withholding blessings, it's because they don't have enough faith in themselves. At least Job's friends had a robust, albeit inappropriately and poorly articulated, view of personal sin. It was their understanding of God that was at the root of their problem. Osteen misunderstands God as well as the human condition.
In chapter one of Your Best Life Now, Osteen asserts, "Notice, God is always ready to do new things in our lives. He’s trying to promote us, to increase us, to give us more."
According to Osteen, God's plan involves good things in this life for you if only you'll believe in yourself enough. Have faith in you and God will bless you. And those blessings are of the material, temporal kind. Got it?
Except that's not how God works. In fact, that's kind of the point of the Book of Job.
Before getting to God's rebuke to Job and Job's friends, a brief reminder may be in order of how the events recorded in the book were kicked off.
In one of the most puzzled over passages in the Bible, Satan presents himself before God in chapter one. In verse eight, God asks Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?"
Satan basically responds with the sputtering declaration that of course Job is faithful, look at everything that God has blessed him with. God then gives Satan permission to take away Job's health, family, and material possessions. Satan does, and that's when Job's three friends enter the picture.
Now, insert Osteen's claim that God "is trying to promote us" into the story of Job.
God's ways are God's ways, and those ways are beyond the comprehension of humans, unless God reveals Himself to humans. One of the things that God has revealed to those who put their faith in Jesus is that His plan is that they will be remade to conform to the image of Jesus. Frequently, but not always, that plan involves suffering and pain. Look at the life of the Apostle Paul, as well as the other Apostles. In fact, ask Christians suffering persecution in China if they're living their best life now. They'll probably say "yes," not realizing that the person who coined the phrase means things like good health, job promotions, and a bigger house (a bigger house is something he talks a lot about in his book).
Job's friends assumed that if Job were faithful, God would've given him bigger flocks and a larger family; when, in fact, that's not what was going on at all. God was working in Job's life for His own purposes and glory. Suffering is not due to lack of faith.
At the end of the book, God shows up and tells Job that humans have no right questioning God. Chapters thirty-eight through the end of the Book of Job are a demonstration of what it looks like for the Sovereign Creator of the universe to call out finite humans.
After dealing with Job, God turns to his Eliphaz and says, "My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right (Job 42:7)."
Joel Osteen would do well to heed God's angry words to Job's three friends.
Jesus said:
MAT7:01 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
MAT7:02 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
God. KING JAMES BIBLE TOUCH - KJV (Kindle Locations 37597-37599). Kindle Edition.
LUK6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
LUK6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
God. KING JAMES BIBLE TOUCH - KJV (Kindle Locations 40237-40240). Kindle Edition.
All these Prosperity types are lime Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) people. MLM’s don’t sell products; they sell dreams. So the Prosperity Gospel is a lot like a lottery ticket. There’s almost no chance of winning but it makes you feel good.
Prosperity Gospel put YOU in charge of God. You can bribe Him to do what you want and pay Him to get you out of trouble.
Then He condemned people like the Pharisees.
I agree. I've always thought of Joel Osteen as more of a motivational speaker than a preacher. People like Mike Murdock and Rod Parsley are at the bottom of the barrel. Their basic pitch is always: "God wants to bless you, but he can't do it until you send me your $300.00 Faith Seed (and the check clears.)" Reminds me of an episode of WKRP in Cincinnati about a preacher named Little Ed who was selling John the Baptist shower curtains and Last Supper steak knives.
JOB42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: ....
I think you are missing the key part: God released Job from captivity when he prayed for friends thus showing that he forgave them. Jesus thought this was so important, He made it a part of the Lord’s Prayer.
These Osteen bashing threads are chock full of folks who just can’t forgive him for having money, a beautiful wife and a big congregation. When Simon Peter asked Jesus what was going to happen to John, Jesus told him is was none of Peter’s business. Jesus could do anything He wanted with John.
Similarly, what Jesus does with any of us is His business. We are saved by His Grace and not anything we could do. That is the one payment for working in the vineyard. However, Jesus also told us that our reward in Heaven was dependent on what we did in this world with what He gave us.
We are in the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The Rev 12:1-3 signs have occurred. The “tamid”, whatever that is, was taken away on Tishri 1 thus starting the 1290 day clock to the Abomination that causes Desolation. The Sign of Jonah is complete, and America didn’t repent. So on the day after the 40 days of warning we had the “pure evil” of the largest mass shooting in recent American history in “sin city”. California is on fire. The Mississippi is so dry over the New Madrid fault that barge traffic is severely restricted. Soon is will take a day’s pay to buy a loaf of bread.
All this is going on, and these people are still coveting Joel Osteen’s things. What will it take to wake them up to the signs of the times?
It seems to me that this is more applicable to this Osteen bashers:
MAR9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
MAR9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
MAR9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
God. KING JAMES BIBLE TOUCH - KJV (Kindle Locations 39374-39378). Kindle Edition.
I see Joel as motivational speaker, maybe kindergarten Christianity, where you learn a few letters maybe even a few words, but don’t expect real sentence structure.
Joel has his purpose - He does make some people think about God and maybe even Jesus, but to those with deeper understanding already he is clearly a watered down mixture of God and other stuff.
I don't know how many he's written nor how many of those have become best sellers, but it's a lot of books!
I've not read one, but I listen to him on XM while driving and I like his style and humor. His material is actually quite good and time tested.
I know first hand how valuable taking charge of one's thinking can be, especially if one's thoughts are then refocused on God, instead of the often negative and harshly critical thoughts about others, our lives and our selves that so often makes up much of our inner dialog.
His material works and he presents it well. I'm not surprised he's well rewarded for sharing what the Holy Spirit shares with him.
Ultimately, it's his money to do with as he pleases, of course, but I imagine that he also gives much to receive as much he has. "First giving what you want to receive to then receive what you want" is not an uncommon theme with him and I imagine he lives as he preaches.
I've been wrong before, of course, but after listening to so many of his stories while driving, to me he seems too goofy/geeky and wholesome to be anything else but that. He probably was and always has been one of those "good like a good Christian should be" kids.
Lots of gossip and fake news in our times and people love to hate on Joel Osteen and how God made him. And... I hate to admit that I used to frequently sing in that same choir, too.
Tricky fellow, that Satan character, getting me to righteously bear false witness like that, but I was wrong about Osteen and what I did was wrong.
During my trials and tribulations these last many years, his material has been very helpful for me and my thinking. I'm better for having taken it to heart.
I thank the Holy Spirit for using Osteen as He does and Osteen for being so receptive to doing what God placed in front of him to do.
Amen!
From what I’ve observed, OLSTEEN’S sermons and books are based on BIBLE PROMISES.
You said it well.
I came to Christ thru happening to turn on Christian TV on day. At first it was all I would watch then I started into looking at the bible myself and by God :) it made sense for the first time in my life!
I find Joel a little superficial where I prefer more teaching/studying scripture so I can really understand the word of God and let Jesus change me, but I do at times still click on Christian TV and always get inspired or a good reminder of what God says and it relates to some thing I’m dealing with.
For those on FR so sure “prosperity” preachers are wrong, Jesus spoke of prosperity, saying he came to lift us up and out of all those things he read out of Isaiah passage His first time preaching in the temple. Jesus also said we have the Holy Spirit and He affords us much help in renewing our mind and staying on track to make changes toward prosperity in lots of other ways in our lives.
Sure there are some on TV and in local churches who are pure shysters, God handles them at the appropriate times.
Joel didn’t even want to lead the church when his dad died. It took him a while to answer the call of God.
I think people who watch or read his writings don’t get that God calls people to preach various levels, various portions of His word. Yes it’s best to know all portions, so thats why I learned you can’t just l listen to your weekly pastor or priest or one TV preacher. I got a friend stuck on Joseph Prince for years, I can’t listen to him but at this time in her life she is learning that portion of Grace and whatever else Joe preaches.
The key is we all keep diving into Jesus whatever way we feel lead to and God will redirect us and correct us as we need if we truly want to grow with Him. Or else He just leaves us be stuck only realizing a portion of all His goodness and bounty He had in store for us.
There’s many scriptures that speak about God wanting us to have abundance - one is like: Our God shall supply ALL our needs according to HIS RICHES and glory for those who are in Christ Jesus and are called according to HIS purposes.
Another scripture is about Jabez, I forget what book it’s in, But God blessed him abundantly.
God’s got riches to share for anyone wanting to pursue Him and let Him show and direct you in His plans and purposes.
Thanks for sharing as you did GBA. May God bless you now and always.
Okay - so if you find out someone is a charlatan you’re not allowed to warn people? How lame is that?
In fact, to begin his sermons, while raising a Bible in the air, he says:
This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do."
I really like that.
So you are saying that you personally have interacted with Joel Osteen enough to determine without a doubt that he is a charlatan? Are you saying that if someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord at the end of an Osteen sermon that it isn’t valid? What exactly, makes Joel Osteen a sharlatan?
The Bible specifically states what it will be like when Satan is in charge, and current events is definitely headed in that way. It is nothing like Donald Grey Barnhouse described, so it appears that his “speculation” was not based on the Bible.
I've had similar experiences. There are some TV preachers I cannot stand that others tell me they love and get help from, so what do I know? Not much.
However, the more I learn, the more I want to know and Osteen can be somewhat superficial sometimes, as you say.
On the other hand, sometimes superficial is about all I'm good for, so that works for me. :)
If you're interested, BBN radio has some good segments. I like the Adrian Rogers sermons they broadcast at 9:30 am and then Chuck Swindall at 10:30. Every now and then they'll broadcast one of Ravi Zacharias' sermons and he can make me think.
WTCG has a local station I can pick up most of the time. I have no idea who all they broadcast, but some are awesome.
Osteen is still my default choice while driving, though. He helps keep me sane and serene in traffic and for that I'm grateful!
No. What I said originally was I do not like him and his smarmy goodie goodie delivery of basic nonsense on riches from God and blah blah blah. Like I got millions and so can you. And how do you really know if someone like Olsteen has accepted Yashua as Lord and Savior? Are you in his mind seeing stuff? Again, do some internet searches on televangelists and their financial background and how they use God’s money for their own selfish purposes. Have to have those million dollar private jets, etc etc etc.
Sounds like simple coveting to me.
Confession: The only church I ever attempted to follow was a Baptist church back in 2007. I felt unease from the very beginning since it had no cross on either the outside or the inside behind the stage...........
I guess the church reasoning was that they don't worship a "symbol"...............
My affiliation didn't last long......
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