**The thief on the cross repented at the last moment and joined Christ in heaven.**
1. That was under the old covenant. The testator was not dead yet. So, the new covenant was not established yet. Jesus Christ commanded rebirth. This includes being filled with the Holy Ghost, which was not to happen until after his departure.
2. Jesus Christ was still on earth. After telling the man with the palsy (that was lowered through the roof), the his sins were forgiven, he told the doubters that “the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins”. Luke 5:24. He also forgave the sins of the sinner woman that anointed his feet. It doesn’t say in exact words that he forgave the thief. But the thief was obviously asking for forgiveness, and the Lord’s reply of them being together in paradise, makes it obvious that forgiveness was granted.
Then the Son of man left this earth. But not before handing over the job of remitting sins to his ordained men (John 20:23). They began to do so in Acts 2:38.
“1. That was under the old covenant. The testator was not dead yet. So, the new covenant was not established yet. Jesus Christ commanded rebirth. This includes being filled with the Holy Ghost, which was not to happen until after his departure.”
Wrong,the thief died under the New Covenant, John 19:32-33. Salvation has been the same since Adam and Eve received the promise of a Savior the Promised Messiah Jesus Christ, Gen 3:15. Only through the shed blood of Jesus Christ has mankind been saved from Hell and that’s from Genesis to Revelation, Heb 10:3-4.
The Holy Spirit isn’t given for salvation, but because of salvation. The Holy Spirit is part of the sanctification process, John 14:26. He is our teacher and advocate, John 14:26 not our Savior that’s Jesus Christ.
“Jesus Christ commanded rebirth”
What you are referencing is when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior He (Jesus Christ) comes and lives within us (Rom 8:10, Gal 2:20, Col 1:27), thus we are born of the Spirit of Christ. Then the Holy Spirit comes to live in us, 1 John 3:24 to teach and guide us so that we become more like Jesus as our great God sanctifies us more and more each day.
“Then the Son of man left this earth. But not before handing over the job of remitting sins to his ordained men (John 20:23). They began to do so in Acts 2:38.”
Well you are consistent I’ll give you that, but unfortunately you are still wrong three for three.
He didn’t leave anyone to forgive sins because only God can forgive sins, Mark 2:7, Luke 5:21, Isaiah 43:25, but with that being said you cannot forgive something that has already been forgiven, forgotten, and not remembered EVER AGAIN!
Col 2:13-14, Heb 8:12, Psalm 103:12
Col 2:13
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Notice it says “having forgiven” that’s past tense my friend. How, because those sins was nailed to the cross again “PAST TENSE”, Col 2:14 & Eph 2:15. All sins were forgiven past, present, and future in Christ Jesus.
“Then the Son of man left this earth. But not before handing over the job of remitting sins to his ordained men (John 20:23).”
John 20:23 doesn’t give authority to a sinful man to forgive sins, but instead it gave authority to the apostles to write the Holy Scripture which is the Word of God and cleanses us by faith in Jesus Christ, John 15:3, John 13:10, Romans 10:17.
“They began to do so in Acts 2:38.”
How you extrapolate that the Apostle forgave the sins and not God in Acts 2:38 proves either that you are repeating what you have read somewhere else or have a serious reading comprehension problem or both you choose.
Wrong. Rather than taking a text in isolation as Catholics often must do, and which is the only way they can attempt to make their tradition (of the need to normally confess sins to a Cath priest in order to obtain forgiveness) here appear Scriptural, you needed to examine issue in the light of the rest of Scripture, and in particular the Scriptural record of the NT church (Acts onward, which is interpretive of the gospels).
In so doing, we can see,
1. Nowhere are NT pastors distinctively called by the distinctive word for a distinctive separate sacerdotal class of believers, ("hiereus" in Greek, and "priests" in English), to whom souls regularly came to obtain forgiveness.
Instead, all believers are called to sacrifice (Rm. 12:1; 15:16; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15,16; cf. 9:9) and all constitute the only priesthood (hieráteuma) in the NT church, that of all believers, (1Pt. 2:5,9; Re 1:6; 5:10; 20:6).
2. Nowhere are NT believers shown regularly confessing sins to their pastors, or ever commanded to do so. Instead, the only exhortation or command to confess sins is to each other in general.
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16)
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:17-20)
Here we see an example of spiritual binding and loosing, in which the heavens were bound from providing rain, and then loosed to do so, whereby believers of like fervent holy faith are encouraged as able to obtain such binding and loosing in prayer.
However, in the case of an infirm man the intercession of NT pastors (presbuteros) can obtain deliverance of chastisement, as indicated by James 5:14,15, as can the intercession of believers of fervent holy faith, but pastors as particularly expected to be so.
Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (James 5:13-15)
Yet nowhere is the infirm man required to confess his sin, and which in this case is likewise one he is ignorant of, but chastened for. (cf. Mark 2:1-11) Nor is this an example of the Catholic "Last Rites," as healing is what is promised here, while the Catholic Last Rites is normatively a precursor of death.
And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four. And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion. (Mark 2:3-12)
One can be chastised for unconfessed sins he is not aware of, and mercy can even be requested for those who sinned in ignorance, (Lk. 23:34; Acts 7:60) and here we see healing and forgiveness being treated as one thing, for the latter obtained the former. And which was in response to the intercession of the man's friends, and is corespondent to James 5.
In both cases it seems that the afflicted were not aware of the sins that there were under chastisement for, and in neither case was confession of such required, and in both cases intercession obtained deliverance without sacerdotal clergy being required.
3. Nowhere does any NT pastor teach believers that they need to be confessing their sins to them in particular in order to obtain forgiveness.
Instead, Scripture simply states that,
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
And when Peter charged Simon Magnus with sin, he told him to pray to God himself if perhaps he might be forgiven. However, this does not mean that intercession for mercy cannot be asked of pastors or believers in general, as was also the case here.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. (Acts 8:22-24)
4. As seen in James 5:16-18, the power of binding and loosing are is not restricted to clergy, but formal judicial actions are executed under leadership, not autocratically but in union with all the church.
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:16-18)
While judicial actions are carried out by the whole church under leadership, that the power to bind and loose is not restricted to clergy is also evident by what follows Matthew 18:16-18, as it applies to two or three are gathered together in the Lord's name.
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:19-20)
The formal corporate judicial binding and loosing is seen in action in 1 Corinthians 5:3-5:
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Likewise is the corporate nature of forgiveness by the body that was harmed by public sin:
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Corinthians 2:10-11)
5. Leadership does act in the person of Christ in such judicial and disciplinary cases (which flows from the OT: Dt. 17:8-13), together with the church, while Spirit-filled holy men such as the apostles can also declare one to be bound in sin, as seen before in Acts 8:20-23, and in Acts 5:1-10 (cf. Acts 13:6-12; 1Co. 4:21) be instruments of Divine judgment.
Yet this is not an endowment of office as if anyone in that office can execute such, but such can be the power of Spirit-filled holy men who are to occupy that office, while the power of binding and loosing in general is provided for all Spirit-filled holy believers.
And since there simply is no Catholic priesthood in the NT church, no separate sacerdotal class of believers distinctively called by the distinctive name for such, whose primary active function is that of offering the Catholic Eucharist as an offering for sin, to be consumed in order to obtain spiritual and eternal life , then any spiritual power that might belong to the office of NT presbuteros does not apply to them .
6. Outside of the above, nowhere is clerical intercession or that of anyone required for forgiveness, but the promise that "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) means that forgiveness does not require regular confession to clergy, let alione Catholic priests.
In many places in the gospel, Jesus makes clear that he is appointing men to transmit his teaching, and to sanctify and to govern in his name. In other words, Jesus describes a religion, an institution, in which he appoints men to mediate the teaching and the sanctifying activity of Jesus.
And thus the Westminster Confession affirms "it belongeth to synods and councils, ministerially to determine controversies of faith," and we believe in ordaining elders (presbuteros) who are the only overseers of the church after the apostles, and who were not Catholic priests, and were normally married.
That and the absence of other Catholic distinctives and the overall contrary nature of Catholicism disallows both the Catholic church from being the one true church (though some within it can be saved) and your own priesthood, and thus you as being a priest from being NT pastors.
HMMMmmm...
Hebrews 11New International Version (NIV)
11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living By faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.
23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.
31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[d]
32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
“I don’t disagree with the document. I disagree with the tone in which it was presented. I disagree with the vacuum within which it was created, and I disagree with the rhetoric this will now create that will only further drive a wedge between evangelical Christians and the LGBT community.”
Lets get back to basics, What did Jesus say he would build his church on? The understanding that Jesus is the messiah, the Son of the Living God. The consistent message of the Bible, REPENT AND TURN TO GOD.
Folks, we better do more dividing and uniting on the right issue.
Most churches are just worldly club houses, following govt ideas of tolerance.
“If I preached on the Nashville Statement and declared my allegiance, would that help or hinder her own spiritual journey?” he asked. “Why would I be more comfortable with pastors and not Christian academics creating this document? Because orthodoxy divorced from relationships can many times lead to rhetoric that hinders (not helps) us achieve our overall mission, to lead all people to Jesus,” he said.
2) Would it help or hinder. Speaking the truth might very well be a stumbling block, or it can be a stepping stone. Wouldn’t it be nice to find out?
3) our overall mission to lead all people to Jesus? That is NOT what Jesus said. He said find his Sheep, the ones who hear his voice, the ones God has given Him. If they don’t want to hear God’s truth, shake the dust from your feet and move on. You planted a seed.