“1. That was under the old covenant. The testator was not dead yet. So, the new covenant was not established yet. Jesus Christ commanded rebirth. This includes being filled with the Holy Ghost, which was not to happen until after his departure.”
Wrong,the thief died under the New Covenant, John 19:32-33. Salvation has been the same since Adam and Eve received the promise of a Savior the Promised Messiah Jesus Christ, Gen 3:15. Only through the shed blood of Jesus Christ has mankind been saved from Hell and that’s from Genesis to Revelation, Heb 10:3-4.
The Holy Spirit isn’t given for salvation, but because of salvation. The Holy Spirit is part of the sanctification process, John 14:26. He is our teacher and advocate, John 14:26 not our Savior that’s Jesus Christ.
“Jesus Christ commanded rebirth”
What you are referencing is when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior He (Jesus Christ) comes and lives within us (Rom 8:10, Gal 2:20, Col 1:27), thus we are born of the Spirit of Christ. Then the Holy Spirit comes to live in us, 1 John 3:24 to teach and guide us so that we become more like Jesus as our great God sanctifies us more and more each day.
“Then the Son of man left this earth. But not before handing over the job of remitting sins to his ordained men (John 20:23). They began to do so in Acts 2:38.”
Well you are consistent I’ll give you that, but unfortunately you are still wrong three for three.
He didn’t leave anyone to forgive sins because only God can forgive sins, Mark 2:7, Luke 5:21, Isaiah 43:25, but with that being said you cannot forgive something that has already been forgiven, forgotten, and not remembered EVER AGAIN!
Col 2:13-14, Heb 8:12, Psalm 103:12
Col 2:13
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Notice it says “having forgiven” that’s past tense my friend. How, because those sins was nailed to the cross again “PAST TENSE”, Col 2:14 & Eph 2:15. All sins were forgiven past, present, and future in Christ Jesus.
Was there something unclear about my post, #39?
Maybe it’s late and I tired — well, actually BOTH are true — but I’m not getting what you want me to see here or comment about.
Generally speaking, I would certainly agree that sin has been nailed to the cross and would say that is one reason why the contents of the books are not referenced as to why any one is saved or damned but only if their names are written in the lamb’s book of life or not.
Numerable years ago if was basically given a visual metaphor for this one night as I dreamed, and I only ever reference it because it in so far as I can tell agrees with Scripture.
THAT last is of overriding importance to me, for it is Scripture and not experience (or some Johnny come lately teaching) that tells us what we can know about God’s promises and his working ... if “experience” (or some teaching) in any way opposes or is subsequently found to oppose Scripture then Scripture STAYS and the other GOES. Anyhoo ... back to my tale....
In that dream I found myself in a massive antechamber to I suppose what amounted to the marraige supper of the lamb. In this antechamber were individuals writing furiously on the huge slides of paper, as tall as a tall man, and also there were other spindles which were unattended a sealed. There were lots and lots and lots of these spindles for the antechamber (I walked around in it a bit) was itself vast.
I understood that these were people who were trying to write their own certificates to let them go in.
In contrast to these, right by the door, there were tables overburdened by single sheet forms. I picked one up and it just happened to be mine, the one filled out specifically for me. It was a legal form, filled out here and there in red (to represent the color of blood, to say that a flesh and blood person was attesting, as common with different forms of common laws), that was essentially a certificate of the new birth, a birth certificate.
I had not written one thing on the page. Nor had I picked up anyone else’s certificate.
There was an attendant to these tables, that I don’t recall if I could see him but I knew he was there, and I asked that since this was filled out for me, and I had it in hand, why couldn’t / shouldn’t I proceed on in? The answer was of course that I should and could go in.
As with the form I entered, quickly found a place that was mine and sat down.
Someone filled out that form for me. I was responsible only to pick it up.
Those innumerable giant spindles where men were laboring to write their own worth, instead of picking up the form that might have been made out for them, profited no one and since every spindle, if active or still, was still outside no one entered the gathering by means of them.
I rather got the impression that one might write on one till they either gave up and accepted someone else’s effort on their behalf or they kept writing until they ran out of time and then they’re were taken away elsewhere, somewhere I did not see but presume it ain’t a good place to end up.
How does that match up to your sense of what Scripture says about salvation and who has brought it about?
**Wrong,the thief died under the New Covenant, John 19:32-33.**
No, you’re wrong. When does a dead man make a promise to someone that is alive. The promise was made while Jesus Christ was still alive. Are you planning on making promises to alive folks when your body stiffening up?
**Heb 10:3-4.**
That’s right, those sacrifices could not take away sins. But they did offer those sacrifices by the commandment of God; LONG before the Law was instituted.
Obedience.
**The Holy Spirit isn’t given for salvation, but because of salvation.**
Look at John 3:3-8. So you think one can see the kingdom of God without the Spirit?
I said:“Jesus Christ commanded rebirth”
You said: **What you are referencing is when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior He (Jesus Christ) comes and lives within us (Rom 8:10, Gal 2:20, Col 1:27), thus we are born of the Spirit of Christ. Then the Holy Spirit comes to live in us, 1 John 3:24 to teach and guide us so that we become more like Jesus as our great God sanctifies us more and more each day.**
First of all, the experience must be scriptural: “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit”. John 3:8
There are three detailed instances of people being filled with the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, as the Spirit gave the utterance (Acts 2:4; 10:44; and 19:6. A fourth detailed instance showed a sorcerer, who after seeing Samaritans receiving the Holy Ghost, offered money for the power to be able to give people the Holy Ghost.
I don’t think that he’d offered anything to see people say, “I accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal savior”.
**He didn’t leave anyone to forgive sins because only God can forgive sins.**
That’s right. But he commanded:
“Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” John 20:23
Was the Lord lying? Do you think that he just didn’t instruct them properly? They were ordained to remit sins, but they had to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Ghost power to guide them.
Do you read Mark 16:16 this way: “He that believeth, is saved..”.
Is Acts 2:38 from heaven, or of men?
**Col 2:13**
Paul reminded those at Colosse: “....putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead”. Col. 2:11,12
Paul reminded the Roman saints of their conversion: “..How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.” Rom. 6:2-5.
** “PAST TENSE”,**
You will not find any detailed conversion stories in the epistles. Those letters were written to people that were already converted. The context proves that without a doubt.
But, you can read plenty of past tense verses that show the context of the epistles, such as this one: “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18.
Here is a short list showing the past tense wording in many places; showing the writer addressing people that are already converted: Rom. 13:11; 1Cor. 2:5, 12:2, 15:1; Gal. 1:6, 3:2-3; Eph. 1:13, 2:1; Phil. 1:5, 2:12; Col. 1:23, 2:6; 1Thess. 1:6, 2:13; Heb. 6:1,2,10.
Is Acts 2:38 the word of God?