No One Knows The Day Or Hour

Unsealed ^ | 8/24/17 | Gary

[amessenger4god]

Satan twists God's message by elevating one Scripture at the expense of all others.  Sadly, many Christians play right along with him.  Interpreting Scripture is not "this and not that", but "line upon line".  In other words, we need to stop shredding Scriptures, ignoring others, and assuming what they mean, and start trusting every Scripture for what they plainly say.  I see many examples of this assumptive Scripture-twisting in the Church and I've argued that it is the primary reason divisions exist within Christianity.  I've written a lot about the need for faithful, comprehensive exegesis in regards to the topics of faith vs. works and the partial-rapture doctrine (see here, here, and here).

What I want to talk about now is the ad infinitum repeat of "no one knows the day or hour" (Matt. 24:36, Mk. 13:32) as an argument against the Revelation 12 Sign.  For those of us watching for Jesus' appearing, what confuses us the most is why so many Christians base their entire theory of eschatology on just two verses when there are literally dozens of other Scriptures that paint a more complete picture.  Even more - over a quarter of the Bible is prophecy.  There are literally dozens and dozens of signs listed in Scripture that indicate the nearness of Jesus' return along with a number of commands to "Watch!" (Matt. 24:42-44, 25:10, 13, Mk. 13:35-37, Lk. 12:37-39, 21:36, Rev. 3:3).

A prime example of how satan twists Scripture can be found in Luke 4:10 during the Temptation of Jesus.  Urging Jesus to throw Himself off the Temple to test God, satan quoted Psalm 91:11: "He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully."  Jesus retorted with Deuteronomy 6:16: "It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.' "  Those who sow discord within the Church use what I'll call the satanic hermeneutic: "this and not that" rather than Jesus' comprehensive hermeneutic: "line upon line" (Is. 28:13).  I think many Christians are using the wrong hermeneutic when it comes to "no one knows".

Firstly, "knows" (οἶδεν in the Greek) is in the perfect tense in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32.  The perfect tense describes something that was true or completed in the past and is still presently true, but not necessarily true in the future.  In other words, no one knew the day or hour, Jesus included, before He spoke those words and no one presently knew the day or hour at the time Jesus spoke those words.  However, His statement cannot be taken as a dogmatic statement about whether or not we can know the day or hour in the future.  It's not in the future tense.  It clearly doesn't say "no one will know" or "no one will ever know".  Compare to the future tense of this Greek verb in Hebrews 8:11.  These two verses do not give us enough information to determine whether or not Believers in the 21st century can know.  For the answer to that question we need to look to other Scriptures - line upon line.

Secondly, context is king.  What was Jesus referring to when He uttered the words "no one knows"?  The rapture?  The Abomination of Desolation?  His second coming?  The end of the world?  There are a number of significant prophetic events still to come and blindly applying "no one knows" to just one event (the rapture) seems like a stretch.  The context in the Olivet Discourse could point to any of these events:

1. The rapture.  Some pre-tribulation proponents see Matthew 24:36-51 as applying to the rapture or the general beginning of the Day of the LORD.  This view has fallen out of favor, but if true then the context for "no one knows" might be the rapture.

2. The end of the world.  The verses immediately preceding Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 mention the end of heaven and earth.  This is an event that occurs at the end of Christ's 1,000-year reign (Revelation 21:1).  Or a differing interpretation would say at the time of Christ's return, which is at the end of the seven year Tribulation.

3. The second coming.  This view is the futurist scholarly favorite for several reasons.  First, because the disciples asked Jesus three questions that have little if anything to do with the rapture: "when will this happen [the destruction of the Second Temple], and what will be the sign of your coming [Jesus' return to establish the Kingdom] and of the end of the age?" (Matt. 24:3).  Second, because the signs described in the Olivet Discourse seem to describe events during the Tribulation, some types and shadows of which occurred leading up to the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.  Third, because the rapture was not clearly revealed until the Apostle Paul delivered the message to the primarily Gentile Church (1 Cor. 15:51-52, 1 Thess. 4:13-18).

Thirdly, if #1 was the correct context, "no one knows the day or hour" may have been an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets.  Of the seven major feasts of the LORD (Lev. 23), the Feast of Trumpets is the only divine appointment that begins on the new moon.  While the case for this being an actual Jewish idiom is not unquestionably established, the logic behind it is pretty sound.  The first sighting of the waxing crescent of the moon by two witnesses began the Feast of Trumpets.  The sighting cannot be perfectly predicted because of atmospheric conditions and so Yom Teruah (the Feast of Trumpets / Day of Shouting) can begin on either of two days, which is why the Jews celebrate what is supposed to be "the first day of the seventh month" (Lev. 23:23-25) over a two-day period because it is "the day no one knows the day or hour".

Now here is where the story gets more interesting.  If you adhere to the aforementioned satanic hermeneutic ("this and not that") then there are a number of Scriptures that present a real problem for "no one knows" - an apparent contradiction:

Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard--and keep it and repent. If therefore you shall not watch, I will come like a thief, and you shall not know at what hour I will come upon you.

- Revelation 3:3

According to Revelation 3:3 those in the Church who are watching will know when Jesus comes for them.  Not only a general timeframe, but the very hour.  The Greek word for "hour", hóra, is the same word used in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32.  Wow, that sounds like a complete reversal!

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John.

- Revelation 1:1

The glorified Christ delivered the message of Revelation to the Apostle John to show or reveal new knowledge to the Church - specifically the knowledge of what will happen in the future when Jesus returns.  Question: was this revelation given before or after Jesus uttered the words "no one knows"?  I think we both know the answer.

Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

- Hebrews 10:25

Hebrews 10:25 tells us that we will see the Day approaching.  The Greek word for "see" means more than just the physical act of seeing with physical eyes.  It can also mean to perceive or understand.

But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

- 1 Thessalonians 5:4

How many times have you heard that Jesus is coming like a thief in the night?  He certainly is (1 Thess. 5:2-3), but not for us (1 Thess. 5:4).  How much clearer could Paul be in the above Scripture?  We are awake, watching, and walking in the light, so Jesus' appearing will not surprise us like a thief.  We can see the Day approaching.

So how do we reconcile the Scriptures, line upon line?  This is my best understanding:

1. Before Jesus was crucified His disciples asked Him when the Second Temple would be destroyed and when He would return to establish His Kingdom.  It is unlikely that they yet understood the two events were separate.  It is likely that they were unaware of the yet-to-be-fully-revealed pre-tribulational rapture of the Church (though some Old Testament Scriptures pointed to it like Isaiah 26:17-21).  They didn't understand an intervening dispensation of grace would cause a pause in Daniel's 70 weeks of years.  This is further evidenced by the fact the Apostles were still wrestling with these questions well into the book of Acts (Acts 15:1-21; see also Romans 11:1-32).

2. Jesus answers their questions quite literally, describing the events leading up to His second coming - His physical return to earth to establish His Kingdom.  Therefore the context is the events transpiring during the Tribulation.  Some of these events were foreshadowed by events leading up to the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, so Jesus' Olivet Discourse effectively answers both questions in one fell swoop.

3. When Jesus was saying "no one knows the day or hour" He was communicating several things.  First, at the time He spoke those words no one presently living (Himself included) could determine the exact day or hour of any of these future events.  Second, the Day of the LORD would come for most (but not all) people like a thief - hence the repeated command to watch.  Third, this statement may have incidentally foreshadowed the timing of the rapture of the Church on a future Feast of Trumpets.

4. Jesus was later crucified for our sins.  He rose from the dead and 40 days later ascended into Heaven.  When He ascended He received back the full glory that He had with God before the incarnation (Jn. 17:5, Eph. 1:20, 4:10, 1 Peter 1:21; see also Jn. 1:1, 8:58, Heb. 10:5).  This would necessarily include omniscience.  Certainly Jesus knew the day and hour of every future event once He was back in Heaven.

5. In His re-glorified state Jesus delivered all previously withheld prophetic knowledge to the Church (Rev. 1:1, 22:10; see also Dan. 12:4), except for the meaning of the "seven thunders" (Rev. 10:3-4).  There is a stark and complete reversal: prophecy sealed (Dan. 12:4) and then prophecy unsealed (Rev. 22:10).  No one can know (Matt. 24:36, Mk. 13:32) and now you better know (Rev. 3:3).  It couldn't be clearer.

Mockers inside and outside the Church are using just a handful of Scriptures at the expense of all others.  They are choosing to be willfully ignorant.  They are also leveling two false accusations, which tells me that their reasoning is not coming from the Holy Spirit, but from a much darker place:

1. The Revelation 12 Sign is astrology.  No Christian proponent of the Revelation 12 Sign is worshiping or bowing down to the stars.  Neither are they divining their life with the horoscope.  The astrology accusation is patently false, a lie of the worst kind, and at complete odds with Scripture (Gen. 1:14, Job 9:9, 38:31-32, Ps. 19:1-2, Amos 5:8, Joel 2:30-31, Lk. 21:11, 25, Rev. 12:1-2).

2. Talking about the Revelation 12 Sign is date setting.  As someone well-acquainted with the teachings of the various proponents of the 9/23 alignment, I can say with confidence that neither they nor I are saying the rapture/second coming/end of the world will definitely happen on September 23rd.  There are a few exceptions - a few people saying the rapture will definitely happen on September 21st or 23rd, but for the most part the only definitive assertion made is that a specific sign described in Revelation 12:1-2 will be fulfilled on September 23rd.  The evidence is crystal clear for that.

I also want to point out that the Great Sign is not happening in a vacuum.  Let's not be so full of doubts and consumed with the cares of this world that we forget the fact that Jesus really is coming back.  And soon.  We've all been very focused on this September sign, but let's not forget the other overwhelming and mounting evidence that the end of the age is upon us:

THE PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE

AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH

20 SIGNS WE'VE ARRIVED AT THE END OF THE AGE

10 REASONS JESUS WILL COME BACK IN OUR LIFETIME

19 REASONS THE RAPTURE COULD HAPPEN IN 2017

So if you want to remain blind and ignorant then God will allow you to be.  Let that day come upon you like a thief.  If you want to latch on to two Scriptures at the expense of everything else and in the face of all of God's signs and wonders, then that is your choice, but don't expect those of us watching to join the unscriptural charade.

[TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed]

editor-surveyor,

The events described in Revelation Chapters 6, 7, and 8 will occur on October 5, 2017.

I am sharing this with you as Yahuah (God) has revealed it to me.

Blessings to you and your loved ones.

Dan :-)

[Ezekiel]

I fully expect that all the houses of established wisdom are about to fall, and that they'll be trumped and humiliated by simple revelations that any 5 YO would get.

It'll cause a weeping and gnashing of teeth I tell ya..

[unlearner]

“It is up to you as to whether you will accept or reject the invitation. Yahuah (God) is making the invitation.”

I have already accepted God’s invitation of salvation. I believe that the Lord Jesus died for my sins and was raised again from the dead. I believe both of these events (and the intermittent burial) were the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. I believe the eye witness testimony of those who saw the resurrected Christ.

I do not believe that a full and correct understanding of the timing and means of Christ’s return is prerequisite to being received by Him when He does so. However, I do believe it is the duty and privilege of every believer to watch expectantly and wait patiently for His promised return.

This event will be categorically one of the most significant moments of history. It is bigger than the flood of Noah, Israel crossing the Red Sea while pharaoh and his armies drowned chasing them, David killing Goliath, Daniel escaping the mouth of lions, and his friends surviving the fire of the furnace. It is on the level of the creation of earth, the death and resurrection of Christ, and the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. It is of paramount importance and significance.

This event will signify the coming of the Day of the Lord. For us it is a day of salvation, a day of Christ and being with Him, a day of rejoicing. For the world it will be a day of wrath and divine retribution. It will be cataclysmic like no other, even the flood of Noah.

Concerning the ENI, I think any treaty, covenant, contract, or agreement with Israel (such as a cease fire) that is specified to last precisely 7 years is noteworthy. However, this alone is not enough to qualify as a fulfillment of Daniel 9. There must be a prince of the covenant. Israel must receive this one who comes in his own name. In other words, Israel will consider him their Messiah. It appears the treaty regards Israel’s protection, not merely trade. He must break the treaty in the precise middle of this seven years.

When he does so, it will be simultaneous (or nearly so) with several other huge events. Satan is cast out of Heaven. There is no more “place” for him or his angels. I think this is part of Christ preparing a place for believers. We will become the new tenants after the Devil is evicted. Anti-Christ will also have a “deadly wound that was healed” which is apparently a false resurrection. He will desecrate the third temple by ending the daily sacrifice and setting up the abomination of desolation. He will demand worship from the whole world. The mark of the beast will be fully implemented as a requirement for all financial transactions. Those who refuse it will be killed. Christians and Jews will be the main targets of persecution.

Paul told the Thessalonians that the day of the Lord would not come until after the abomination of desolation and its revealing of the anti-Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). This means that even in that day this event could not happen secretly. We will know when it has happened. It is a sign. Signs must appear or they are not signs.

“The Two Witnesses will begin their ministry on September 5, 2017. They will prophecy for 1260 days and be killed on February 4, 2021.”

We know that one of the two witnesses is Elijah and that part of his ministry will be to restore all things (Matthew 17:11). He will come before the Day of the Lord (Malachi 4:5). He will turn the hearts of Israel and lead them to repentance to prepare for Christ’s second coming. The two witnesses will be clothed in sackcloth, signifying their ministry of bringing repentance. They also have power to shut heaven from rain and command pestilences. Do these things line up with the judgments during the day of wrath or the beginning of sorrows that lead up to the time of the great tribulation? I think it is fairly clear. The time of famine, disease, and death during Revelation 6 seals 3 and 4 match their ministry.

Also, they will be killed and raised up three-and-a-half days later.

Revelation 11:11
Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

If the people of the world have seen the return of Christ, the resurrection of the bodies (from their graves) of dead believers, and the catching up of living believers, why will people who see this happen to the two witnesses be so amazed?

“You may not be aware that there are at least two (2) harvests (raptures) future to today.”

I believe the events you are describing are one and the same. While there are two harvests, and there are multiple events connected with the second coming, these particular ones describe different perspectives on the same event. One is from an earthly perspective (being gathered by angels at Christ’s appearing). The other is from the perspective of Heaven (the last-generation church arrives for its homecoming in Heaven).

“The Red Dragon will not become visible to any of us until the sun turns black on October 5, 2017 at 18:40 UTC (Revelation 6:12-13).”

Well, at least we have a very precise prediction to test whether the position you are presenting is true.

“The Great Tribulation will begin on September 5, 2017.”

How will it be clear that it has begun?

“I also know that The Great Multitude in White Robes is in heaven no later than October 5, 2017. Look at what they are holding in their hands - palm branches! They are celebrating the Festival of Ingathering, which this years begins on October 5, 2017.”

Wouldn’t that be an incredibly short “great tribulation?”

More importantly, why would their coming out of the great tribulation need to happen on this particular Festival of Ingathering? Why not in one, or two, or three years?

“I have sought and been given his permission to state as fact that the events of Revelation Chapters 6, 7, and 8 will occur on October 5, 2017.”

This statement is confusing for numerous reasons. First, if God has revealed this and given permission to share it, then it must be understandable (not vague) and verifiable (we will know when it has happened). It appears you do not expect to be around for that discussion if you believe the rapture will take us out of here before then. But second, the seven seals could in no way happen on a single day. So are you saying that they will all be finished by October 5, or they will start? Or do you mean something else?

I find that you have compiled a lot of useful information. However, I feel you have locked into a dangerous path of setting dates for many things which are, by the basis you have provided, very speculative. Yet you are staking so much on the accuracy of these predictions. It is more concerning, even alarming, that you make such bold claims independently. If this is the work God is doing, and if it is really Him who has revealed these things, I would expect a long line of other godly believers confirming the same message. Otherwise, I would expect God to have given you some signs of your own to prove to others and convince us that your message is from God.

I personally do not have to have signs if such claims can be proved from the Bible alone. However, there are too many weak links in your arguments to consider the conclusions you are reaching reliable. It is far too speculative to place all of our hopes and dreams on specific dates which will certainly dash them to pieces when they do not come to pass. That is not how God operates. I do not see God operating through these predictions you are making, as they do not align with how he has operated in the past.

While I try to keep an open mind, I must also apply God’s instructions regarding prophecies:

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21
Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You obviously have invested a lot of time into researching this. And I think it is a shame to put all of that effort at stake conditional upon being right about a few exact dates. If and when these are wrong (which in my lifetime has been the case every time anyone made such claims) it will greatly diminish the value of all of your research.

Every time I’ve seen date-setting, it led to mockery by unbelievers when it did not come to pass as predicted. And this leads to an extremely important point. What does date-setting accomplish? Wouldn’t it be far more helpful to simply exhort people to come to Christ now? If someone might die tomorrow rather than in October, don’t they need salvation now? Shouldn’t believers be prepared now? Shouldn’t they be mindful of Christ’s return regardless of the date and be busy working for the kingdom today?

The message of the Gospel and Christ’s return do not hinge upon the ability to predict exact dates (or timeframes and deadlines). I hope that is the lesson you will learn when your predictions do not come to pass, or preferably you will come to see this beforehand and correct your message before the harm is done.

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “I am sharing this with you as Yahuah (God) has revealed it to me.” <<

A very dangerous thing to say!

All of the “seal” events through the 5th seal are now history.

We are into the 6th seal events at this time.

We have just over 7 years remaining until the gathering of the bride, on the Day of Trumpets.

The day following that will begin 10 days of the pouring out of Yehova’s wrath in the Bowl judgements, leading up to Yeshua’s physical return to the Earth at Sukkot, to establish his earthly kingdom.

.

[TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed]

editor-surveyor,

The 6th Seal will be opened on October 5, 2017 at approximately 18:40 UTC. Its opening is accompanied by the stars falling from the firmament to the earth (Revelation 6:12-13) The consequence is that a third (1/3) of the earth is burned up, a third of the trees, and all of the green grass (Revelation 8:7, 8:12).

These events have not yet taken place.

The Bride will be gathered from earth to heaven no later than October 5, 2017. We see her [The Great Multitude in White Robes] in the throne room of heaven in Revelation 7:9ff. This picture takes place between the time that the stars begin to fall (Revelation 6:12-13) and the time that the stars burn up the earth (Revelation 8:7).

The Bowl Judgments will take place beginning February 20, 2021 and last until March 18, 2021.

Details available at “The Rescue of the Bride” at http://october-5-2017.com

Blessings,

Dan

[TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed]

unlearner,

You are welcome to read “The Rescue of the Bride” at http://october-5-2017.com

It is my life’s most important work.

The associated videos are at the YouTube channel “TheRescueOfTheBride”

I have shared with you what Yahuah has revealed to me.

I believe that there are three (3) groups of saved believers.

1) The Bride
2) The Guests
3) The Servants

You may well be a saved believer, but in my opinion, understanding what I am offering you and acting accordingly may affect where you land on the list.

It my mission to wake up The Bride and to help her prepare to reach her full potential.

Blessings,

Dan :-)

[editor-surveyor]

.
The bride will be gathered on the day of Trumpets in 2024.

where do you get your nonsense?

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “but in my opinion” <<

That is probably the only reliable statement in your thesis.
.

[TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed]

editor-surveyor,

You have now crossed the line into reviling, which is a sin. Look it up.

My statements are based on matching Yahuah (God) given signs in the firmament with the Gregorian calendar, and then working out the scriptural puzzle with reverence and respect to Yahuah. My insights come from listening to His still small voice as I work joyfully through His truth.

In reviling me, you are insulting Yahuah.

I have done nothing to offend you. I am speaking the truth to you. I am being patient with you. I am trying to provide you with an opportunity to improve your position for eternity.

You just are not listening.

[unlearner]

“You may well be a saved believer, but in my opinion, understanding what I am offering you and acting accordingly may affect where you land on the list.”

How can a saved believer today land anywhere on your list other than within the body of Christ, His bride?

Especially, how can a believer today, who is eagerly awaiting Christ’s return, not be among those He receives to Himself?

What is it that you are offering beyond a doctrinal view? Do you think that those who do not agree with your view and the dates you are sharing are going to be left behind to go through unnecessary trials?

How many people today do you think fit into this category? Do you believe that only members of your website are among this group?

I see you have about 130 subscribers to your YouTube channel. I watched a few of your videos and read quite a bit of content on your website. I’m sorry, but what I’ve seen, heard, and read so far lacks quite a bit of supporting evidence to be convincing.

Your claims of receiving this from God through Him revealing it is not supported by any history of even a few small fulfilled prophetic claims to authenticate you as a prophetic authority.

But what I find the most troubling of all is a lack of focus on Christ Himself in your discussions. You made an error in one of your messages in which you prayed to our Heavenly Father declaring your desire for us to be part of His bride.

The Church is the bride of the Lamb, Christ Jesus. The purpose of His return is so that we can be with Him.

You seem very preoccupied with using a Hebrew transliteration of the names of God and Jesus. God does not require people to come to Him through some other language than their native tongue. This is clear from the beginning of the Church in Acts 2 until its in gathering in Revelation 7 where every language is accounted among this last generation church.

Jesus is the English name of Christ. It is also clear that Christ can be misidentified by people even using the correct name. And some false Christs will come in His correct name.

But God, who divided the languages in Babel, has united them in Christ. Christ is in every race, nationality, and language. He is every race, nationality, and language. He is no longer Jewish only. He is also black, white, Asian, and every other ethnicity. He speaks all languages.

Everything in the Bible centers around Jesus. He is the object of our affection and worship. Our relationship with our Heavenly Father is exclusively through the relationship we have with Jesus.

Do we share the same beliefs about the identity of God’s Son, Jesus Christ the Lord?

[editor-surveyor]

.
Get real!

You have literally claimed to be a prophet of Yehova!

I think you’re a snake.
.

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “How can a saved believer today land anywhere on your list other than within the body of Christ, His bride?” <<

Don’t hold your breath for this false prophet’s answer.
.

[xone]

ph

[SamAdams76]

[SaveFerris]

[ I also know that The Great Multitude in White Robes is in heaven no later than October 5, 2017. ]

Well, here we are. Almost 22 hours left in the day where I am.

[SaveFerris]

Meaning we’re still here. Though somebody, I thought was going for Oct. 6 as well......

[ShadowAce]

Though somebody, I thought was going for Oct. 6 as well......

I've heard that the time could be anywhere from Oct 5th through Oct 11th.

We'll see. I hope that is correct.