No One Knows The Day Or Hour

Unsealed ^ | 8/24/17 | Gary

[amessenger4god]

Satan twists God's message by elevating one Scripture at the expense of all others.  Sadly, many Christians play right along with him.  Interpreting Scripture is not "this and not that", but "line upon line".  In other words, we need to stop shredding Scriptures, ignoring others, and assuming what they mean, and start trusting every Scripture for what they plainly say.  I see many examples of this assumptive Scripture-twisting in the Church and I've argued that it is the primary reason divisions exist within Christianity.  I've written a lot about the need for faithful, comprehensive exegesis in regards to the topics of faith vs. works and the partial-rapture doctrine (see here, here, and here).

What I want to talk about now is the ad infinitum repeat of "no one knows the day or hour" (Matt. 24:36, Mk. 13:32) as an argument against the Revelation 12 Sign.  For those of us watching for Jesus' appearing, what confuses us the most is why so many Christians base their entire theory of eschatology on just two verses when there are literally dozens of other Scriptures that paint a more complete picture.  Even more - over a quarter of the Bible is prophecy.  There are literally dozens and dozens of signs listed in Scripture that indicate the nearness of Jesus' return along with a number of commands to "Watch!" (Matt. 24:42-44, 25:10, 13, Mk. 13:35-37, Lk. 12:37-39, 21:36, Rev. 3:3).

A prime example of how satan twists Scripture can be found in Luke 4:10 during the Temptation of Jesus.  Urging Jesus to throw Himself off the Temple to test God, satan quoted Psalm 91:11: "He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully."  Jesus retorted with Deuteronomy 6:16: "It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.' "  Those who sow discord within the Church use what I'll call the satanic hermeneutic: "this and not that" rather than Jesus' comprehensive hermeneutic: "line upon line" (Is. 28:13).  I think many Christians are using the wrong hermeneutic when it comes to "no one knows".

Firstly, "knows" (οἶδεν in the Greek) is in the perfect tense in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32.  The perfect tense describes something that was true or completed in the past and is still presently true, but not necessarily true in the future.  In other words, no one knew the day or hour, Jesus included, before He spoke those words and no one presently knew the day or hour at the time Jesus spoke those words.  However, His statement cannot be taken as a dogmatic statement about whether or not we can know the day or hour in the future.  It's not in the future tense.  It clearly doesn't say "no one will know" or "no one will ever know".  Compare to the future tense of this Greek verb in Hebrews 8:11.  These two verses do not give us enough information to determine whether or not Believers in the 21st century can know.  For the answer to that question we need to look to other Scriptures - line upon line.

Secondly, context is king.  What was Jesus referring to when He uttered the words "no one knows"?  The rapture?  The Abomination of Desolation?  His second coming?  The end of the world?  There are a number of significant prophetic events still to come and blindly applying "no one knows" to just one event (the rapture) seems like a stretch.  The context in the Olivet Discourse could point to any of these events:

1. The rapture.  Some pre-tribulation proponents see Matthew 24:36-51 as applying to the rapture or the general beginning of the Day of the LORD.  This view has fallen out of favor, but if true then the context for "no one knows" might be the rapture.

2. The end of the world.  The verses immediately preceding Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 mention the end of heaven and earth.  This is an event that occurs at the end of Christ's 1,000-year reign (Revelation 21:1).  Or a differing interpretation would say at the time of Christ's return, which is at the end of the seven year Tribulation.

3. The second coming.  This view is the futurist scholarly favorite for several reasons.  First, because the disciples asked Jesus three questions that have little if anything to do with the rapture: "when will this happen [the destruction of the Second Temple], and what will be the sign of your coming [Jesus' return to establish the Kingdom] and of the end of the age?" (Matt. 24:3).  Second, because the signs described in the Olivet Discourse seem to describe events during the Tribulation, some types and shadows of which occurred leading up to the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.  Third, because the rapture was not clearly revealed until the Apostle Paul delivered the message to the primarily Gentile Church (1 Cor. 15:51-52, 1 Thess. 4:13-18).

Thirdly, if #1 was the correct context, "no one knows the day or hour" may have been an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets.  Of the seven major feasts of the LORD (Lev. 23), the Feast of Trumpets is the only divine appointment that begins on the new moon.  While the case for this being an actual Jewish idiom is not unquestionably established, the logic behind it is pretty sound.  The first sighting of the waxing crescent of the moon by two witnesses began the Feast of Trumpets.  The sighting cannot be perfectly predicted because of atmospheric conditions and so Yom Teruah (the Feast of Trumpets / Day of Shouting) can begin on either of two days, which is why the Jews celebrate what is supposed to be "the first day of the seventh month" (Lev. 23:23-25) over a two-day period because it is "the day no one knows the day or hour".

Now here is where the story gets more interesting.  If you adhere to the aforementioned satanic hermeneutic ("this and not that") then there are a number of Scriptures that present a real problem for "no one knows" - an apparent contradiction:

Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard--and keep it and repent. If therefore you shall not watch, I will come like a thief, and you shall not know at what hour I will come upon you.

- Revelation 3:3

According to Revelation 3:3 those in the Church who are watching will know when Jesus comes for them.  Not only a general timeframe, but the very hour.  The Greek word for "hour", hóra, is the same word used in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32.  Wow, that sounds like a complete reversal!

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John.

- Revelation 1:1

The glorified Christ delivered the message of Revelation to the Apostle John to show or reveal new knowledge to the Church - specifically the knowledge of what will happen in the future when Jesus returns.  Question: was this revelation given before or after Jesus uttered the words "no one knows"?  I think we both know the answer.

Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

- Hebrews 10:25

Hebrews 10:25 tells us that we will see the Day approaching.  The Greek word for "see" means more than just the physical act of seeing with physical eyes.  It can also mean to perceive or understand.

But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

- 1 Thessalonians 5:4

How many times have you heard that Jesus is coming like a thief in the night?  He certainly is (1 Thess. 5:2-3), but not for us (1 Thess. 5:4).  How much clearer could Paul be in the above Scripture?  We are awake, watching, and walking in the light, so Jesus' appearing will not surprise us like a thief.  We can see the Day approaching.

So how do we reconcile the Scriptures, line upon line?  This is my best understanding:

1. Before Jesus was crucified His disciples asked Him when the Second Temple would be destroyed and when He would return to establish His Kingdom.  It is unlikely that they yet understood the two events were separate.  It is likely that they were unaware of the yet-to-be-fully-revealed pre-tribulational rapture of the Church (though some Old Testament Scriptures pointed to it like Isaiah 26:17-21).  They didn't understand an intervening dispensation of grace would cause a pause in Daniel's 70 weeks of years.  This is further evidenced by the fact the Apostles were still wrestling with these questions well into the book of Acts (Acts 15:1-21; see also Romans 11:1-32).

2. Jesus answers their questions quite literally, describing the events leading up to His second coming - His physical return to earth to establish His Kingdom.  Therefore the context is the events transpiring during the Tribulation.  Some of these events were foreshadowed by events leading up to the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, so Jesus' Olivet Discourse effectively answers both questions in one fell swoop.

3. When Jesus was saying "no one knows the day or hour" He was communicating several things.  First, at the time He spoke those words no one presently living (Himself included) could determine the exact day or hour of any of these future events.  Second, the Day of the LORD would come for most (but not all) people like a thief - hence the repeated command to watch.  Third, this statement may have incidentally foreshadowed the timing of the rapture of the Church on a future Feast of Trumpets.

4. Jesus was later crucified for our sins.  He rose from the dead and 40 days later ascended into Heaven.  When He ascended He received back the full glory that He had with God before the incarnation (Jn. 17:5, Eph. 1:20, 4:10, 1 Peter 1:21; see also Jn. 1:1, 8:58, Heb. 10:5).  This would necessarily include omniscience.  Certainly Jesus knew the day and hour of every future event once He was back in Heaven.

5. In His re-glorified state Jesus delivered all previously withheld prophetic knowledge to the Church (Rev. 1:1, 22:10; see also Dan. 12:4), except for the meaning of the "seven thunders" (Rev. 10:3-4).  There is a stark and complete reversal: prophecy sealed (Dan. 12:4) and then prophecy unsealed (Rev. 22:10).  No one can know (Matt. 24:36, Mk. 13:32) and now you better know (Rev. 3:3).  It couldn't be clearer.

Mockers inside and outside the Church are using just a handful of Scriptures at the expense of all others.  They are choosing to be willfully ignorant.  They are also leveling two false accusations, which tells me that their reasoning is not coming from the Holy Spirit, but from a much darker place:

1. The Revelation 12 Sign is astrology.  No Christian proponent of the Revelation 12 Sign is worshiping or bowing down to the stars.  Neither are they divining their life with the horoscope.  The astrology accusation is patently false, a lie of the worst kind, and at complete odds with Scripture (Gen. 1:14, Job 9:9, 38:31-32, Ps. 19:1-2, Amos 5:8, Joel 2:30-31, Lk. 21:11, 25, Rev. 12:1-2).

2. Talking about the Revelation 12 Sign is date setting.  As someone well-acquainted with the teachings of the various proponents of the 9/23 alignment, I can say with confidence that neither they nor I are saying the rapture/second coming/end of the world will definitely happen on September 23rd.  There are a few exceptions - a few people saying the rapture will definitely happen on September 21st or 23rd, but for the most part the only definitive assertion made is that a specific sign described in Revelation 12:1-2 will be fulfilled on September 23rd.  The evidence is crystal clear for that.

I also want to point out that the Great Sign is not happening in a vacuum.  Let's not be so full of doubts and consumed with the cares of this world that we forget the fact that Jesus really is coming back.  And soon.  We've all been very focused on this September sign, but let's not forget the other overwhelming and mounting evidence that the end of the age is upon us:

THE PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE

AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH

20 SIGNS WE'VE ARRIVED AT THE END OF THE AGE

10 REASONS JESUS WILL COME BACK IN OUR LIFETIME

19 REASONS THE RAPTURE COULD HAPPEN IN 2017

So if you want to remain blind and ignorant then God will allow you to be.  Let that day come upon you like a thief.  If you want to latch on to two Scriptures at the expense of everything else and in the face of all of God's signs and wonders, then that is your choice, but don't expect those of us watching to join the unscriptural charade.

[Iscool]

Congratulations.

The sickest statement I've ever seen on this forum.

Really??? You wanna see sick, look at this...Here's a teaching moment from Jesus...

Mat_15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

Mar 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him (nor can it help him spiritually)
Mar 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart (soul, spirit), but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

So the next time one of your priests tells you that eating that wafer is food for your soul, or spirit, you can tell him Jesus says, 'nuts'...

You might wonder why Jesus would even bring this up...Eating that wafer for spiritual benefit did not start with the Catholic religion...It was a pagan practice long before Jesus even showed up...He knew all about their false teaching and put that in there to warn us and you...

[Iscool]

"I am the vine; you are the branches.

And if you were standing next to him you may say, 'yes, He IS the vine'...

[Iscool]

John was told to write what was, what is, and what is to come. Chapter 12 of Revelation is a parenthetical look back in time.

Nope...John was brought ahead into the future...He was viewing the Tribulation...What WAS is our time...What IS is the events during the Tribulation...What will be is the Millennium, and after that...

[SkyPilot]

Great thread - thank you very much for posting it.

[firebrand]

By the way, we now have a date: October 5.

Peace process over in 45 days.

[TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed]

unlearner,

Go to my website article “The Rescue of the Bride” at http://october-5-2017.com

and/or my YouTube channel “TheRescueOfTheBride”

I have answers for each of your questions.

I am sharing with you what Yahuah (God) has shared with me.

Blessings to you and your loved ones.

Dan :-)

[Maudeen]

http://www.patburt.com/

[SaveFerris]

So, if I may understand correctly (without sifting through it all) there are big things happening on September 21 or by September 21?

Just want to be certain if it is ON that date or BY that date.

(yes which happens to coincide with U.N. ‘Peace and Safety’ Day (a couple other adjectives they have in there).

[Ezekiel]

What I want to talk about now is the ad infinitum repeat of "no one knows the day or hour" (Matt. 24:36, Mk. 13:32) as an argument against the Revelation 12 Sign.

Mat 24

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mark 13

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Luke 17

24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Lightning is a bright flash across the entire heavens: an epiphany, electricity.

"This generation" - has it ever been up to anything good? A KJV search on the phrase ought to enlighten anyone actually interested.

It's the evil, wicked, faithless, perverse, adulterous generation of vipers.

This generation is that generation. Heaven and earth aren't passing away yet. Of that day and hour (of the passing away of heaven and earth), no man knows.

But as for the Days of Noe, there's a date: 17th day of the 2nd month. The flood of light (reality, truth) is going to destroy people. Light travels a bit faster that water, so beware, because Noah entered the ark one week out, rounded up the animals, and then entered for the long haul, sealing the door shut.

[editor-surveyor]

.
It will be Tishri 1, but there is no guarantee that it will fall on the computed date. The visibility of the new moon is not something that can be consistently predicted. It often fools the experts.
.

[SaveFerris]

O.K. thanks.

[editor-surveyor]

.
The passing of the material universe is 1000 years in the future.

It is Yom Teruah, the Day of Trumpets, the gathering of Yeshua’s Kehillah, that matters now. That is the unpredictable visibility of the new moon of the 7th month (or any month for that matter).

Many would like to pretend that it is completely unknowable, but that is nonsense. If it doesn’t show on the predicted day, it is the next day.

Everyone will certainly know when Yeshua rips a hole in our universe to gather his sheep! There will be gnashing of teeth for sure.
.

[SaveFerris]

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/monthly.html?year=2017&month=9&country=34

Here’s Time and Date for September 2017.

[unlearner]

“The Great Multitude in White Robes come out of The Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:14), so their gathering cannot occur before the start of The Great Tribulation (September 5, 2017).”

The Great Tribulation begins exactly in the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week. I should have added this very important detail to my list of things that occur at that time. I do not see evidence that seals 1-4 (which precede the Great Tribulation according to the Olivet discourse), have occurred yet. Particularly, we have not seen a seven-year treaty between anti-Christ and Israel or the 3 and 1/2 year prophesying by the two witnesses who will be killed in the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week.

“The elect will be raptured on October 5, 2017 no later than about a half an hour before 19:10 UTC. Ref. Luke 21:25-28”

The problem with using this passage is that it is describing celestial events and Christ’s return AFTER the Great Tribulation.

While I do believe some of what you have put together makes sense, I do not see any evidence of the Red Dragon planet being or becoming visible yet. Your assumptions of when it will cause an eclipse seem impossible to line up with the order of events in Daniel 9-12, the Olivet discourse, and Revelation 5.

In short, I think you are on to something with the Red Dragon planet. But I am 100% certain it will not be colliding with earth or leading to a rapture on October 5th of this year. Most people who make such predictions end up with egg on their face, and doing recalculations and reexamining the relevant texts only after their predictions fail. It would be better to correct the errors now, because doing so after-the-fact will harm your credibility.

So far I am 100% error-free on such predictions... because I have not made any. But I am aware and do see many of the things you point out on your website. We should be watching for the signs of Christ’s return. The signs in the sky are among them, but there are others which must take place also.

[TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed]

unlearner,

You are very close to the truth. I believe that there is a place being readied for you at Yahusha’s (Jesus’) table, otherwise you would not have been brought to my attention.

It is my job to wake you up and prepare you for the harvest. I take my work seriously.

It is up to you as to whether you will accept or reject the invitation. Yahuah (God) is making the invitation.

“midst” is a possible interpretation of the “middle” word used in Daniel 9:27.

With that in mind, you may not be aware that we are currently in the “midst” of a “seven” year treaty involves Israel. Here is the Wiki on the ENI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Neighbourhood_Instrument

As the ENI run from January 1, 2014 to December 31, 2020, then September 5, 2017 would definitely qualify as being in the “midst” of the “seven.”

Seals 1-4 may well be open.

1) False Christs: Do a simple Google search on “False Christs”

2) Peace taken from the earth: Think Europe being invaded under the guise of “diversity”

3) Economic tumult: All of the markets are constantly manipulated to keep us from seeing that the economic situation is worse than The Great Depression.

4) War over a quarter of the earth: Wars have been ongoing for our entire lives. We just do not see them in our own back yards.

The Two Witnesses will begin their ministry on September 5, 2017. They will prophecy for 1260 days and be killed on February 4, 2021. Their ministry runs through The Great Tribulation and most of The Day of Yahuah (The Day of the Lord).

You may not be aware that there are at least two (2) harvests (raptures) future to today.

1) First harvest: The Great Multitude in White Robes (Revelation 7:9ff). This group comes out of The Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:14). It is not a pre-trib rapture. This harvest occurs in the context of one third (1/3) of the stars falling from the firmament to the earth (Revelation 12:4, 6:13, 8:7, 8:12, 9:1). Believers are lifted from the earth to the throne room to meet Yahusha (Jesus).

2) Second harvest: The Rapture of the Elect (Matthew 24:29-31). This group is harvested at the end of The Great Tribulation (”immediately after the distress of those days”). It is not a pre-trib rapture. This harvest occurs in the context of all of the remaining stars falling from the firmament to the earth (Isaiah 34:4, 34:8). Yahusha (The Lord) himself descends from heaven to pick up believers (Tribulation Saints).

The Red Dragon will not become visible to any of us until the sun turns black on October 5, 2017 at 18:40 UTC (Revelation 6:12-13). The Red Dragon is not a planet. The Red Dragon is Satan (Revelation 12:9). We have a description of the Red Dragon in scripture. It does not appear to be describing a “planet.”

I do not know the date of harvest (rapture). I do know, however, that The Great Multitude in White Robes comes out of The Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation will begin on September 5, 2017.

I also know that The Great Multitude in White Robes is in heaven no later than October 5, 2017. Look at what they are holding in their hands - palm branches! They are celebrating the Festival of Ingathering, which this years begins on October 5, 2017. Palm branches are an integral part of the celebration of the Festival of Ingathering (Leviticus 23:40). The Festival of Ingathering is also known as The Festival of Tabernacles or Sukkot.

Yahuah (God) has given me nine (9) different confirmations that pinpoint October 5, 2017. I have sought and been given his permission to state as fact that the events of Revelation Chapters 6, 7, and 8 will occur on October 5, 2017.

I am not worried about my credibility. I only care about the truth.

Please read through “The Rescue of the Bride” at http://october-5-2017.com and watch the associated videos. My YouTube channel is “TheRescueOfTheBride”

Blessings to you and your loved ones.

Dan :-)

[editor-surveyor]

.
That calendar is off by a day.

The moon was sighted Wednesday evening.

(which confirms what I stated earlier: Its a difficult event to predict)

Rood's calendar (printed shortly after the Aviv) has it correct.

Rood's Calendar for September
.

[editor-surveyor]

.
You’re rushing the Tribulation!

Daniels 70th Shabbat begins this spring, but the Trib cannot begin until 42 months later.

The gathering of the Bride will be 42 months after that, in 2024.
(IOW, the trib is definitely not 7 years long)
.

[editor-surveyor]

.
oops!

Spring should say “Fall.”
.

[editor-surveyor]

.

Teaser for Program Thursday Sept 14 at 8:00 PM regarding "The Sign"
.

[Lee N. Field]

I also want to point out that the Great Sign is not happening in a vacuum.

Except, you know, it would be in vacuum.