" ... what is in the Bible;
but it's REALLY hard to UNTEACH them what ain't !"

Extremely well written !

And a VERY poor Mormon. :O)

“eternally begotten” That term is not just unscriptural, it’s contradictory. It’s like some theologians knew they couldn’t get away with removing the verses that say ‘begotten’, without being called out.

"Eternally Begotten" is not some perverse semantical trick, nor is it contradictory at all. Think about this...if the Father is the "Everlasting Father", then the Son is the Eternally Begotten Son. There was never a time when the Father was not nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit. You keep fighting against the words theologians through the centuries have used to attempt to put into words the truths that God HAS revealed to us through His word about Him as best as is humanly possible to comprehend. You ignore them at your own risk.

Where is the Father not at? Are you “boatbums of Florida”, or “Florida the boatbums”?

Please! NOBODY has denied the omnipresence of God.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)

A child is born - a son is GIVEN. The Son was given, the Son didn't BECOME the son when He was given - He always was the Son. This Son is the "mighty God" and the "Everlasting Father". For those who quibble and say Jesus was only "mighty God" but not the "Almighty God", we can show them Psalm 50:1 "The mighty God, even the LORD, has spoken" or Isaiah 44:6 “This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. or Isaiah 43:10,11 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

Yep! Kinda hard to misinterpret the words "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.". They'll try, of course, but it means what it says and the best we can do is BELIEVE what God has revealed about Himself.

Hateful? Because I point out what the LDS says about the BOM? Hateful? Elsie, if you want to see 'hate' perhaps I should point out all the errors, inconsistencies, hateful rhetoric, etc etc etc of Mormonism. Because someone points out errors in anything that's near and dear to someone you're accused of being hateful. Wow.

Elsie is your ALLY in this SkyDancer. His method takes a little getting used to is all. :o)

Well when sending me a post she shouldn’t put the words HATE!!! all in caps is what I’m saying.

Well when sending me a post she shouldn’t put the words HATEFUL!!! all in caps is what I’m saying.

Yes.

And they would be more open to Ezekiel 46:1 and the Father’s calendar.
Remarkably..

They already have the head covering on their women that Paul taught down..

**”Eternally Begotten” is not some perverse semantical trick, nor is it contradictory at all.**

Well, when Ps 2:7, and Heb. 1:5 say: “Thou art my Son, this DAY have I begotten thee.”, there is a beginning: “this DAY”.

“..the firstborn of every creature”. Col. 1:15

“...These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.” Rev. 3:14

The soul of the Son might have been created a million years before anything else. But, God the Father was the power in Christ that made it happen. (Remember Isaiah 42:1-7, especially vs 5?). We know that God the Father, is the Father of the Son of God, and sent forth his Spirit, that proceeds from him, that made the Son’s earthly body (”a body thou hast prepared me”, Heb. 10:5).

Jesus Christ was raised from the dead by the “glory of the Father” (Rom. 6:4). And “Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer THINE Holy One to see corruption.” Acts 2:27

**You keep fighting against the words theologians through the centuries have used to attempt to put into words the truths that God HAS revealed to us through His word about Him as best as is humanly possible to comprehend.**

The key words there are “attempt”, and “humanly”. Those theologians somehow couldn’t just take the scriptures alone, read them in harmony (rightly divide), and see that there is a reason that the phrases “God the Son” or “God the Holy Ghost”, are not only not found, but are contrary to the scriptural descriptions.

I would be glad to debate this issue, with both sides using ONLY scriptures (With the only option of using capital letters to help see key words sometimes overlooked or misunderstood.)

Peter makes very plain and straightforward descriptions of Jesus Christ in Acts 2:22-36, and 10:36-43. This is the man who Jesus Christ commended for having the God inspired understanding of who was standing before him.

The prayer by the disciples, in Acts 4:23-30, show them praying to the Lord, mentioning “THY holy child Jesus” twice. These people understood the Godhead. They knew, just as Paul would later testify (Col. 2:9), that “in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily”.

Want to find God the Father, and his Holy Spirit that proceeds from the Father?..... the fullness is found BODILY in Christ.

**For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)**

That is all made possible by the fullness of the Godhead placed in the body of Jesus Christ.

**Isaiah 44:6 “This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.**

How is that different in God witnessing of himself in Isaiah 42:1-7?

**Isaiah 43:10,11 “Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”**

“witnesses” is plural and “servant” is singular. Are you sure that “servant” isn’t the same “servant” in the heretofore avoided reference of Isaiah 42:1-7?

Of course there is no saviour beside God. Christ could only save because of the fullness of the Godhead in him.

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold........” (guess where that is found) ;)

Well when sending me a post she shouldn’t put the words HATEFUL!!! all in caps is what I’m saying.

I know I have seen you on these RF threads in the past so it is a surprise to me that you don't know the deal with Elsie. First, Elsie is a HE - something I erred on at the start. Second, Elsie has a "quirky" online presence and sense of humor. I love that about him but some folks don't seem to get it - RCs and LDS'rs have a heck of a time with him - something he probably delights in. I'm not speaking for him as he can easily defend himself. He may just not have gotten around to straightening it out with you yet. Elsie IS an ally in defending the Biblical Christian faith.

The soul of the Son might have been created a million years before anything else. But, God the Father was the power in Christ that made it happen. (Remember Isaiah 42:1-7, especially vs 5?). We know that God the Father, is the Father of the Son of God, and sent forth his Spirit, that proceeds from him, that made the Son’s earthly body (”a body thou hast prepared me”, Heb. 10:5).

Just when I think we are on the same page, you go and say something like this! NO, there was no "soul of the Son that might have been created". Not a million years or billions of years. The Son IS God - who changes not, who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, who is the I AM, the eternal self-existent one - just as the Father and the Holy Spirit are. ONE God, not three - ONE.

I've spent a lot of time on this going back and forth and posting the Scripture - written by holy men of God who were carried along by the Holy Spirit - which was used by the church leaders in Nicea to formulate the creed that defines the DEITY of Jesus Christ. Scripture does not contradict itself. It DOES make sense and it is ALL true. I can't force you to accept it but I will pray for you and trust that the Holy Spirit will clarify this central truth to you.

We have a caller on line three; I think it is; "Hello; SaveFerris; from... ...the USA!"

"Thank you for calling in to the Ask the Non-Prophet Show; where we search LDS sources to find answers to the most interesting questions!"

"What's yer question for this here ol' Gentile to answer??"

"Oh GOD! I can't believe I got through! I've listened for Years , but never tried to call in before. Oh! I made it!"

"Yes. Yes you have, Save. Go ahead what are you wondering about??"

"Well; may I call you Non?"

"Of course; most everyone does..."

"Ok. Non; I've heard [that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent]

Is that going to be:

1) Salt Lake City, Utah, or
2) Independence, Missouri or
3) up near Gallatin, Missouri?

"Well; according to https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/new-jerusalem

The New Jerusalem is to be built in Missouri, D&C 84:1–5 (D&C 57:1–3).

AND...

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/zion?lang=eng

In the latter days a city named Zion will be built near Jackson County, Missouri (United States of America), to which the tribes of Israel will gather (D&C 103:11–22; 133:18).

The New Jerusalem shall be called Zion, D&C 45:66–67.

Independence, Missouri, is the place for the city of Zion, D&C 57:1–3.

So it appears that #2 is your answer: Indepence.

They did start building something; long, long ago, but it seems that a HUGE! cattle ranch in Florida and the rebuilding of downtown SLC been commanded by GOD to happen first.

Click for a higher resolution picture. http://www.mrm.org/files/images/adam-ondi-ahman-original.jpg

Click for a higher resolution picture. https://latterdaysense.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/eden.jpg

"I can't find much on Gallatin, but did come across this little tidbit of info: http://kbia.org/post/mormons-returning-northwest-missouri-174-years-after-extermination-order#stream/0

"Once again, LDS sources and quotes provide the best answers to question; but there are many other places to find info that is; shall we say; a little less biased?

"Thank you, Save, for your question and now listen to one of our ATNP sponsors as we go to commercial break #14."

http://lds-tours.com/

WHO mentioned AUTHOR??

As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by the evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated, by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi, which was an account abridged from the plates of Lehi, by the hand of Mormon; which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again—and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over again, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated, which ye have retained; and behold ye shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words. I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, I have, through his grace and mercy, accomplished that which he hath commanded me respecting this thing. I would also inform you that the plates of which hath been spoken, were found in the township of Manchester, Ontario county, New-York.
Joseph Smith

AUTHOR and PROPRIETOR!!!

SD, you should know by now that the scoundrel, Mormon_Dude, manages to hack into my computer from time to time.

This sounds like HIS work!!

Extremely well written !

Fer a Hoosier!!

His method takes a little getting used to is all.

BULL! oni!

He's a diggety-dang BIGOT that posts the most OUTRAGEOUS things!!

He should be BANNED!!!

--Mormon_Dude(I hope the religion moderator will ACT on this!!)

RCs and LDS'rs have a heck of a time with him - something he probably delights in.

Aw... shucks...

Some folks think elsie is “quirky”;
Some even call him a big turkey.
But one thing I can say;
there’ll ne’r be a day;
You’ll ever see him doing his twerky!

Joe; was that ALL one sentence there??

The Trinity What Trinity?

Well; according to MORMONism; you either have it or you don't!

Trinity:

found in the Book of MORMON ----------- rejected in the Doctrines and Covenants

Book of Mormon:

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

...and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

...doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

...praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

...power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son--And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, (Mosiah 15:3-5)

...of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2:8)

"Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15)

"And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." (3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36)

Doctrine and Covenants:

According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest. (Section 121:32)

And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God. And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them--Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths--then shall it be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (Section 132:18-20)

Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. (Section 132:37)