Posted on 07/02/2017 5:37:17 PM PDT by grumpa
“And when He had said these things, as they were looking on, He was taken up [Greek EPAIRO], and a CLOUD received Him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as He went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven?’ This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come IN LIKE MANNER [Greek HOS TROPOS] as you saw him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9-11)
This passage is one that futurists hold up to preterists to show that the Second Coming has not yet happened. “What,“ they say, “are you nuts? If Jesus had come in AD 70, everyone would have seen Him.”
As I began studying eschatology seriously over 15 years ago, it became increasingly obvious that my futurist assumptions about the last days and Second Coming could not hold up to the test of Scripture. But my passion is to teach what the Bible teaches, even if it conflicts with my presuppositions or denominational traditions.
I considered every passage in the Old and New Testaments about eschatology and concluded that the popular views are mostly regurgitations from denominational echo chambers, rather than from Scripture. My previous assumptions radically failed to consider Old Testament apocalyptic language, as well as the over 100 prophetic imminence statements in the New Testament. The preterist arguments persuaded me that Jesus was never claimed to return in his physical body, but rather in divine judgment just like Yahweh in the Old Testament. I became convinced that the preterist view is the only view of eschatology that could hold up to Scripture.
In case you are not familiar with the preterist view, there are dozens of passages that clearly teach that the culmination of the biblical “last days” and the “Second Coming” would happen while some of those living in the first century were still alive. Preterists believe that Jesus and the biblical writers were telling the truth about the timing of these things, and that these passages were fulfilled by Jesus’ non-bodily PRESENCE IN JUDGMENT against Old Covenant Israel in AD 70.
As I continued to study, I considered every objection I could find against the preterist view. I now see that my own previous objections as a futurist were grounded in ignorance, presupposition, and wishful thinking. Looking back, it still amazes me what hoops I went through to explain away, especially, the imminence passages. Wanting to cling to the popular views of prophecy, I had become skilled at Scripture-twisting.
Indeed, at first glance, it seems clear in Acts 1:9-11 that Jesus was predicted to return to earth literally, bodily—in (or on) a literal cloud. Unlike almost all other Second Coming passages, there is no time-constraint on its fulfillment, so it could still be a future event. However, to properly interpret this passage we must reconcile it with other passages about the Parousia (“Second Coming”). Let me offer ten points of exegesis of this passage about why it does not predict a literal, bodily Second Coming. . . .
In this article, I describe why the futurist view fails on critical analysis:
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=D3BD424B0B25B83F!16252&ithint=file%2cdocx&app=Word&authkey=!AO7aCIxpe1YGP6Q
Oh, me? Well at least I took the time to earn degrees in bible and theology - including a Ph.D (yes, earned).
And by God’s grace you will never find me dismissing that which I know nothing about.
Oh, me? Well at least I took the time to earn degrees in bible and theology - including a Ph.D (yes, earned).
And by God’s grace you will never find me dismissing that which I know nothing about.
The Nicene Creed was originally written in Greek. Its principal liturgical use is in the context of the Eucharist in the West and in the context of both baptism and the Eucharist in the East. A modern English version of the text is as follows:
1. I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
2. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages.
3. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made.
4. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
5. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
7. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.
9. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
10. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng
(Someone is on the path to LivingProphetness!)
It was revealed to me that you failed in posting the correct verse from the bible:
Amos 3:7
Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.
HMMMmmm...
I guess ol' Joseph shudda seen THIS coming...
JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?
JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?
JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?
JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!
JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.
JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!
JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.
JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.
JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?
JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)
JESUS: That's it.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: Nah - it was right.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.
JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Everlasting Covenant' that you came up with.
JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!
JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?
JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....
JESUS: What did you say?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.
JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.
JESUS: No...
JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?
JESUS: Nope.
JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!
JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: No; it wasn't.
JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?
JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?
JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.
JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.
JOSEPH SMITH: But....
This is the eternal law of heaven:
HMMMmmm...
I guess when GOD says it, HE means it!!!
|
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS SECTION 132
51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
|
,,,,,,, Amen . . .
Wow this board is infested with Mormons! Don’t get me wrong - I admire a lot about you guys, clean living and all (really!), but you are slavishly following some strange dude from 19th century rural New York, who said God told him to take about 30 wives, including those of some of his duped followers. I’ll stick with the Bible, thanks just the same.
Oops. Sorry Elsie I thought you were one of them! Great posts revealing the sordid underside of the Mormon (false) prophet.
LOL! But I suspect the actual confrontation was infinitely more horrifying to Joseph Smith.
I just LOVE posting stuff that comes directly from the Mormon archival databanks.
Kinda makes me wonder just why GOD needed to say SO much more in the Doctrines & Covenants...
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
-- Ezra Taft Benson
| Teachings of GOD |
 |
|
| Mormon Doctrine | Book of Mormon |
|---|---|
| Heaven consists of three levels or "glories"; evil people go to the lowest, "hell" (D&C 76:81-90), the glory of which "surpasses all understanding. Only Mormon apostates do not go to heaven, but to "outer darkness" (D&C 76:31-39) | Only two possible fates after death: heaven or hell. Levels or degrees of heaven are not mentioned. |
| Jesus and God the Father are separate beings. (D&C 130:22) | Jesus and God the Father are the same. (Mosiah 3:8, 15:1-5, Ether 4:7, 12) |
| God has a body of flesh and bones. (D&C 130:22) | God is a spirit. (Alma 18:26-28) |
| God was once a man like us, and progressed to godhood. (TJS 342-345) | God does not change and has never changed. (Mormon 9:9, Moroni 8:18) |
| There are many gods. (TJS 370-373) | There is only one God. (Alma 11:28-30) |
| We can become gods ourselves. (D&C 76:58, TJS 342-345) | No mention of this idea. |
| We lived with God in a spirit world (a "premortal existence") before being born into this life. (D&C 49:17, 93:23-29, 138:55-56) | No mention of this idea. |
| God is the literal father of our spirits, conceived by him and our "Mother in Heaven" (MD 516) | No mention of this idea. |
| Mary conceived Jesus by natural means, namely, God the Father impregnated her. (MD 546-47, JoD 1:50-51, 8:115, 11:268) | Mary conceived Jesus "by the power of the Holy Ghost" (Alma 7:10), by being "carried away in the spirit" (1 Nephi 11:15-19) |
| Those who do not accept the gospel in this life will have the opportunity to do so after death, and can receive baptism by proxy (D&C 127, 128) | Salvation must be attained in this life; after one dies it is too late (Alma 34:34, 2 Nephi 9:38, Mosiah 2:36-39). No mention of baptism for the dead. |
| David and Solomon did nothing wrong by having many wives. (D&C 132:38-39) | The polygamy of David and Solomon was "abominable" to the Lord (Jacob 2:24) |
| Priesthood divided into an upper (" after the order of Melchizedek") and lower ("Aaronic") priesthood | No distinction between "priests" and "high priests"; priesthood is "after the order of [the Son of] God" (Alma 4:20, 13:1-12). No mention of "Aaronic" priesthood. |
| Salvation in the highest heaven ("exaltation") requires undergoing the "endowment" initiation ceremony in a temple, the details of which are kept strictly secret. The participants are required to take numerous oaths, which are also secret. Details | "Secret combinations" requiring secret oaths are condemned. (Mormon 8:27, 40, 2 Nephi 26:22, Helaman 6:22, and many others.) No mention of any such ritual as part of the gospel. No mention of "exaltation" or "endowment." |
| Exaltation requires marriage in a Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4) | No mention of this doctrine. |
| "Celestial marriage" lasts for time and all eternity. (DoS 2:58 ff) | No mention of this doctrine. |
| The "first resurrection" is only for the righteous. (D&C 76:64. 63:18) | The "first resurrection" is for all who died before Christ's resurrection, righteous and unrighteous alike (Mosiah 15:24, Alma 40:16-17) |
| The "idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart" is false. (D&C 130:31; verse 22 says that it is the Holy Ghost that "dwell[s] in us") | "The Lord" dwells in the hearts of the righteous. (Alma 34:36) |
| The Lord's Supper ("the sacrament") consists of bread and water. | The Lord's Supper should consist of bread and wine. (3 Nephi 18:1-9, Moroni 5) |
| Only the priest blessing the sacrament kneels. | The priest is to kneel with the church while blessing the sacrament. (Moroni 4:2; see also D&C 20:76) |
| Use of alcohol, coffee, tea ("hot drinks") is forbidden. (D&C 89) | No such commandment. |
| Church is governed by the three men of the "First Presidency," higher in authority than the Quorum of Twelve. | Jesus placed twelve disciples over the church he founded in America. (3 Nephi 12, passim) No "first presidency" mentioned. |
| Except for Joseph Smith, all prophets are promoted to that office by those above them in rank, and by seniority. They work their way up to the top. | Prophets are called directly by God. |
| The church is trying to befriend people of other religions with the message "All churches have some truth"; "The church has always extended a hand of friendship and fellowship to those of other faiths, and will continue to do so." | There are two churches only: the true church and the "church of the devil," "the whore of Babylon" (1 Nephi 14:10-12). A church which seeks to become "popular in the eyes of the world" is of the devil. (1 Nephi 22:23) |
| Since 1978 the church claims that it is not racist, that all races are equal and that the color of a person's skin has no religious significance. | A dark skin is a curse from God, a punishment for one's unrighteousness (or the unrighteousness of one's ancestors). A dark skin can become light through righteousness. (1 Nephi 12:23, 2 Nephi 5:21, Alma 3:6, Mormon 5:15, Jacob 3:8-9, 3 Nephi 2:15) |
| The church teaches that faith, repentance, baptism are the "first principles" of the gospel, but that in order to obtain the highest degree of heaven, much more is required (obedience, tithes, endowment, etc.) | Christ says that the gospel is faith, repentance, baptism ONLY. Any teaching beyond that will lead to hell 3 Nephi 11:31-40 |
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
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