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BREAKING- Pope dismisses Cardinal Müller from CDF
Rorate Caeli ^ | 06-30-2017 | Rorate Caeli

Posted on 06/30/2017 11:07:56 AM PDT by NRx

CORRISPONDENZA ROMANA and RORATE CÆLI have just learned that His Eminence Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Faith since July 2, 2012, has been dismissed by Pope Francis on the exact expiry date of his five-year mandate.

Cardinal Müller is one of the cardinals who sought to interpret Amoris Laetitia along the lines of a hermeneutic of continuity with Church Tradition. This was enough to put him among the critics of the new course imposed by Pope Bergoglio.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
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To: BlessedBeGod
Not even remotely funny, given the seriousness of this issue.

Is there a synopsis of this situation somewhere online you'd recommend? This non-catholic would really like to get up to speed on what is going on here, especially if it as serious as you believe. In all sincerity.....my thanks in advance.

21 posted on 06/30/2017 12:33:27 PM PDT by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that cannot trust you with guns?)
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To: BlessedBeGod

Hey - nevermind. Google is my friend. Haven’t really paid much attention to what is going on inside the CC, but it is fascinating to me for some reason. Some interesting reading about Amoris Laetitia.


22 posted on 06/30/2017 12:54:45 PM PDT by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that cannot trust you with guns?)
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To: Hat-Trick
There have been literally hundreds of articles posted on FR, but I don't know of one offhand that would make a good summary. Here are the salient points, though:

1) Francis is trying to change the doctrine of the Church. No pope is allowed to do that.
2) He wrote an ambiguous paragraph in a document that is being used to justify bad things, and has effectively killed the commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery," as well as three of the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church (Confession, Holy Communion, and Matrimony).
3) Only a few cardinals are publically opposing him, along with a handful of bishops (out of the entire world).
4) Muller is the only person on earth with the authority to overrule the Pope on matters of doctrine, but he tried to play both sides of the fence and Francis and his friends have been free to do whatever they want.

Hope that helps as a quickie summary.

23 posted on 06/30/2017 12:58:23 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod (To restore all things in Christ~~Appeasing evil is cowardice~~Francis is temporary. Hell is forever.)
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To: Hat-Trick

I’m not a Catholic, so A, take my synopsis with a grain of salt, and B, expect a real Catholic to correct my post pretty quickly.

From what I’ve gathered, Francis is in the midst of taking the Catholic Church into a sharp left turn. He put out a papal exhortation about family life called The Joy of Love. It contained a footnote that appeared to say the secularly divorced can take communion. That’s a pretty major shift.

Four conservative Cardinals formally asked Francis to clarify his document. He was supposed to give them a respectful, timely and edifying reply, but (figuratively speaking) he gave them the middle finger instead.

Now, as his papal document continues to sow questions and chaos, he’s clearing out other Cardinals who would be considered conservative, and replacing them with comrades—i.e.: Cardinals who approve of his Leftist shift. I gather that Muller was a conservative overall, and he’s been added to the group Francis has sidelined.

For traditional Catholics, this is a crisis. The Pope is supposed to preserve and champion the faith, not remake it in his image. Nerves are understandably on edge.

Those are my impressions, anyway. As I said, look for a real Catholic to set us both straight if necessary.


24 posted on 06/30/2017 1:09:58 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic wotk using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter; Hat-Trick
I'm a real Catholic, and I think you nailed it, Fantasywriter.
25 posted on 06/30/2017 1:42:38 PM PDT by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: Fantasywriter; Hat-Trick
Those are my impressions, anyway. As I said, look for a real Catholic to set us both straight if necessary.

Sounds good to me. The only thing I'd add is that the word "schism" is being bandied about by people who are NOT prone to hysterics.

26 posted on 06/30/2017 1:46:07 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod (To restore all things in Christ~~Appeasing evil is cowardice~~Francis is temporary. Hell is forever.)
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To: BlessedBeGod

Thank you, much appreciated.


27 posted on 06/30/2017 1:48:27 PM PDT by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that cannot trust you with guns?)
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To: NobleFree

Thank you. I’ve been paying attention as best I can.


28 posted on 06/30/2017 1:50:27 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic wotk using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: BlessedBeGod; Fantasywriter; NobleFree

Again, thank you all for your time and edification. I will definitely start paying closer attention to this and to the threads here on FR. We definitely live in interesting, dangerous times.


29 posted on 06/30/2017 1:53:10 PM PDT by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that cannot trust you with guns?)
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To: BlessedBeGod

Thank you. I’ll need to research the way in which schism is being discussed.

Meanwhile, I am very grateful for *your* summary. I had no idea Muller had been in a position to override the Pope on doctrinal matters. That was an extremely helpful insight. To think Muller (apparently) tried to play it safe, only to be shunted aside. That is food for thought.


30 posted on 06/30/2017 1:55:13 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic wotk using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Hat-Trick

‘We definitely live in interesting, dangerous times.’

+1


31 posted on 06/30/2017 1:55:55 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic wotk using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter
To think Muller (apparently) tried to play it safe, only to be shunted aside. That is food for thought.

He may have been doing that in the hopes of keeping his job longer so that Francis wouldn't replace him with someone who's heterodox sooner. So, it may have been with good intentions, but it's had bad results.

32 posted on 06/30/2017 1:59:30 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod (To restore all things in Christ~~Appeasing evil is cowardice~~Francis is temporary. Hell is forever.)
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To: BlessedBeGod; Fantasywriter; Hat-Trick; NobleFree
Good summary, thanks all around. I would only add that I myself had been very slow to take an "alarmist" view of the Francis pontificate, but now I think it's practically impossible to overstate how serious this is.

What is at stake? Whether God is God.

33 posted on 06/30/2017 2:31:24 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and Judgment are the foundation of His throne.")
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To: BlessedBeGod

That makes sense. It appears that Muller would have traditionally occupied this post, Prefect of the Congregation for the Faith, for a few years longer. I can only imagine his shock and dismay at such a sudden dismissal.


34 posted on 06/30/2017 2:33:33 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic wotk using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Greetings, Mrs. Don-o. For anyone asking, ‘Why is this so serious?’, they need look no further than your post.

I must say, the part where you described Francis’ intentional ambiguity and plausible deniability rang a bell. Obama was like that. He wanted to fundamentally undermine (he called it ‘change’) America, but he never came close to being honest about it. We can’t be too watchful around these wink-and-nod people; their very lack of clarity and straightforwardness tells you all you need to know about the nature of their motives.


35 posted on 06/30/2017 2:42:19 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic wotk using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

Fantasywriter:

I think your analysis was pretty spot on, and done so without unnecessary polemics.

The Pope seems to trying to move the Catholic position on Holy Matrimony closer to what the Eastern Orthodox have. For some Catholics (not saying me) that is tantamount to moving Rome towards the East and Not Orthodoxy towards Rome.

I believe that the normative position should be that those who are civilly remarried and divorce should refrain from Communion. Could there be a chance that a person in such situation could receive Holy Communion, perhaps. Let’s say someone got married out of college, got divorced civilly and remarried in mid 30’s and are now say 70 years old and married to the “2nd spouse”, perhaps in that case yes.

The problem is that this could open the door for people to receive communion who really should not be.


36 posted on 06/30/2017 4:51:14 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: Fantasywriter

“It contained a footnote that appeared to say the secularly divorced can take communion.”

I think you must mean the secularly remarried. Divorced Catholics can take communion, it’s the remarriage part that the Church doesn’t accept, right?

Freegards


37 posted on 06/30/2017 5:16:51 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: CTrent1564

I agree with your conclusion. Jesus’ teaching on marriage was a very difficult one. Even the disciples despaired when they realized how serious He was on the subject. For many, this message has been watered down. People get divorced and remarried without taking the eternal perspective into account. No church leader should contribute to this error.

We’re only on earth a matter of decades, but heaven and hell are forever. We need leaders who can help us to think in eternal terms. It would change many decisions, if people really understood that they would live forever with the consequences.


38 posted on 06/30/2017 5:18:21 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic wotk using Inernet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: CTrent1564
Let’s say someone got married out of college, got divorced civilly and remarried in mid 30’s and are now say 70 years old and married to the “2nd spouse”, perhaps in that case yes.

Under traditional Catholic teaching, how would this case be any more licit?

39 posted on 07/01/2017 4:36:14 AM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
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To: marshmallow

Thanks for this post. My initial reaction was that he was anti-AL (probably because it would make sense why Francis fired him), but now I recall that he wasn’t pro-AL or anti-AL. A real lukewarm.


40 posted on 07/01/2017 4:40:36 AM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
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