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Locked on 06/28/2017 3:25:17 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Flame war material. |
Posted on 06/28/2017 9:04:53 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
Seeing the despotism exercised by the head of the Reformation in imposing his opinions, one might imagine that nothing should be more soundly and painstakingly elaborated than his new doctrine. Such conclusion is completely mistaken.
Martin Luther, reformer
His doctrine, dictated by personal whims and prejudices The false divine messenger, who ‘modestly’ preferred himself to all the Doctors of the Church and pretended to be inspired by the Holy Ghost since he received ‘his dogmas from heaven,’ in reality is insecure, regretful about his early teachings, contradictory and arbitrary. Whether he established dogmas or destroyed them, he was motivated by trivialities and personal prejudices. He changed his opinions like an actor changing his costumes. Here are some examples:
Conditional baptism - On May 12, 1531 Luther wrote to Wenzel Link about conditional baptism, affirming that “after careful consideration we have defined that it must simply be eliminated from the Church.” The next day, he changed his mind. Again ‘inspired,’ he wrote to Ossiandro: “I cannot condemn conditional baptism being given to children whose first baptism is doubtful” (1)
Power of the Catholic Church - In 1519 he wrote: “I fully confess the supreme power of the Roman Church; after Jesus Christ Our Lord, she should be preferred to everything on earth and heaven.” (2) This Church “is the one chosen by God; there can be no reason for anyone to break away from her and, entering into schism, separate himself from her unity.” (3) In 1520, in his Lutheran Epistle, he strongly praised Pope Leo X, saying that his courageous life placed him above any attack. (4)
However, in that same year Leo X would become the Antichrist and the Roman Church “a licentious den of thieves, the most depraved brothel, the kingdom of sin, death and hell.” (5)
Saints, purgatory, prayer for the dead - In 1519, two years after he publicly started to preach his Reformation, while defending himself from adversaries, he taught the cult of the saints, the existence of purgatory, praying for the deceased, the practice of fasting etc. (6) Some years later, he rejected all these doctrines as idolatry, superstition and fanaticism.
Indulgences - In 1541 he swore in Christ’s name that when he began to preach against Dominican Johann Tetzel, accusing him of selling indulgences, he did not even know what the word indulgence meant! (7) Notwithstanding, his criticism against those same indulgences - about which he knew nothing - had served as a pretext for him to attack Rome, disseminate his errors and preach the revolt! (8)
Luther’s own mission - Regarding the origin and ‘legitimacy’ of his mission, in a little more than 15 years Luther changed his views at least 14 times (9). Opportunism dictated his choices. To combat Catholics he would say one thing; to defend himself before his Protestant colleagues he would affirm another; he had yet other arguments to calm the turbulence in the new reformed communities. The actor had a well-stocked wardrobe, with costumes for a multitude of roles
It would not be difficult to continue this list of contradictions. There is almost no important dogma about which Luther did not completely change his views from time to time.
Changes motivated by irrational hatred
To understand Luther’s psychology, one must examine the motivation for his constant vacillations. Writing about Communion under one of two species in his liturgical essay called Formula Missae, he stated: “If a council would mandate or allow two species, to show our scorn we would receive only one or neither one
Manuscript, purgatory verses
A 15th-century English manuscript with Bible verses on Purgatory, which Luther eliminated on a whim nor the other, and we would anathematize those who, following that mandate, would receive both” (10).
On another occasion, he declared that he had decided to do away with the elevation of the host at mass just to show his contempt for the Papacy and that he had conserved the custom up until then just to scorn Andreas Karlstadt [another more radical Protestant who had already abandoned this practice] (11).
With similar vileness he wrote in 1523: “If it should happen that one, two, or a thousand and more councils would decide that ecclesiastics should marry, I, trusting in divine grace, would rather forgive the one who has two or three harlots throughout his life than the one who, following that conciliar decision, would take one legitimate wife forever” (12).
The same psychological bias against the hated papists appeared when he wrote: “Since they [the papists] think they are triumphing over one of my heresies, then let me propose another” (13).
What a mixture of vulgarity, licentiousness and duplicity in the supposed “evangelic reformer”!
One other fact should not be forgotten. It is the famous sacramental dispute that divided the innovators Martin Luther and Andreas Karlstadt into two irremediably separated camps, which started with this tavern scene. After a harangue by Luther, the two reformers entered Black Bear Inn in Jura, where Karlstadt declared he could no longer tolerate Luther’s opinion on the real presence. Luther scornfully challenged him to refute his position in writing and promised him a florin if he would do it. He took a coin from his pocket and Karlstadt accepted it.
The wine flowed; the contenders shook hands and drank to each other’s health. This was their declaration of war on August 22, 1523. Karlstadt, bidding Luther farewell, said: “I hope you will be smashed by a roller!” Returning the amiability, Luther replied: “May a thousand lighting bolts strike you before you leave town!”
From this episode Bossuet concluded: “This is the new gospel, these are the acts of the new apostles…” (14)
Changes inspired by the Devil
His reason for suppressing the mass appears to be more ‘supernatural.’ It was the victory of the Devil in a terrible dispute into which Luther had entered with him. Luther himself narrated the episode in detail and then concluded:
“This [surrender] should surprise no one since the logic of the Devil was delivered in such a blood-curdling voice that it nearly froze the blood in my veins. I understood then why some persons die in the night: It is because the Devil can kill and suffocate men, and even if he does not take those extremes, he can entangle them in his disputes with so many obstacles they can cause death: I have experienced this many times” (15).
Was Luther lying when he described this episode or was he telling the truth? If the latter is the case, what reliance can be put on a man whose teacher was the Father of Lies? Let the admirers of the reformer try to find a resolution for this dilemma…
The episode above is indicative of the important role the Devil played in the interior life of the heresiarch. Indeed, Satan never leaves him alone a moment. He follows him day and night, into both the church and the tavern. More than once Luther stated that his life was “a series of duels” with Satan. He slept with the Devil more often than with his Katerina.
He saw the Devil everywhere: in the cloud that passed, in the lightning that struck, in the thunder that roared, in the forests, waters, deserts, infesting the air and the fields. He saw devils hidden in serpents and lizards, monkeys and parrots, in the fly that rested on his book, even in the walnuts sent by an admirer. The Evil Spirit was the one who routinely resolved every difficult problem for him. To the Devil’s malefic action Luther attributed the moral disorders and social calamities unchained by his subversive doctrines (16).
This diabolic obsession that tortured the soul of the unfortunate renegade can be seen in all of Luther’s writings. Devils dominate in his style; one would say that some of his pages were written in Hell. In the essay against Duke Henry of Brunswick, the Devil is honored by being named 146 times; in the book on the councils he mentioned the Devil 15 times in four lines (17). He accused the adversaries of the Reformation of having “a satanist, super-satanist and hyper-satanist heart.” To Luther must be attributed the initiative of making a new genre of writing fashionable, one dominated by the Devil, whose tune all the other reformers would follow and sing.
Are these uncertainties, doctrinal contradictions, superficiality in inventing and destroying dogmas, and satanic arrogance and language befitting a messenger who proposes to restore Christianity?
This thread is objectionable to me for it contains a personal attack — this time a female rooster!!!
The country was also founded by white people, but you don’t see that in the DOI or Constitution, either.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3564841/posts?page=36#36
I should have said this post is objectionable to me for it contains a personal attack.
Oh, now, not all of them. We've debated this matter in the past. And, those Protestant churches that did devolve to persecuting their fellow brothers and sisters had adopted the old State Church attitude of the Roman Catholics. It's the bane of Christians wherever it occurs.
... and Thomas Jefferson celebrated an Ishtar dinner in the White House, lol.
Sorry, but that post wasn’t sent to you.
... and the obscenely corrupt and violent Popes plus assorted miscreants in the hierarchy skate blameless with apologists for Rome again. Same as it ever was.
You’re just mad because we aren’t paying for indulgences any more.
I see nothing but good-natured ribbing there, rooster lol.
What a great idea! Let’s refight the 30 Years War on FR! What could possibly go wrong?!
My most common line on FR is growing to be, “See, I can be nasty too.”
So when Catholics are nasty to me, I match their tone exactly. And when they’re civil, I’m also civil.
And it seems that a lot of Catholics don’t like it when their tone is turned back on them.
“Oh, now, not all of them. We’ve debated this matter in the past. And, those Protestant churches that did devolve to persecuting their fellow brothers and sisters had adopted the old State Church attitude of the Roman Catholics. It’s the bane of Christians wherever it occurs.”
Anglicans persecuted Presbyterians (Puritans).
Puritans in turn persecuted Anglicans and others when they ruled England.
Puritans also persecuted others in America.
http://www.bostontourguide.org/myth-puritans-believed-in-religious-freedom/
Thus, what you said has been shown to be untrue.
Okay.
If I went a bit too far, you have my apologies for going too far.
I certainly share your opinion about Pope Frankie, whether or not we agree on anything else.
Liberals have been trying to infest churches for the last century. Protestant denominations faced that problem in the 70s. Some of them fought them off, some surrendered to leftism or faithful Christians just left them and went someplace better.
Catholicism, far as I can tell, is suffering much the same. Liberal infiltrators in leadership positions.
Catholics gravely persecuted Hussites who became Moravians, drove them underground, eventually to Rotterdam and to Philadelphia, where they disembarked and settled first in Berks County, PA then walking to North Carolina where they established their Southern Province. These are my mother’s people.
Your history is deficient. I suggest reading something other than the Catholic Encyclopedia, which is very evidently self-serving. Priests must have written it.
No need to...
Ruffle her feathers
I’ve felt a little hen-pecked before, myself. But by a female rooster? Ouch.
Guess Catholics prefer popes who sell forgiveness for money, start wars, have mistresses, get their illegitimate sons to be pope, murder a pope to become pope, sold the throne to another, raped pilgrims visiting the Vatican, invoked pagan gods, murdered cardinals, held orgies, tortured people, stole money from the Church gave to relatives, etc, etc.
But sure Catholics, complain about Luther - your house sure is in order.
I think Prots like you need to be reminded that Catholic masses where said in the US way before the Protestant heresy was introduced to this continent. Why are your panties all up in a bunch about the truth about the fountainhead of your heresy??
The United States was established by and for Protestants with religious freedom because of the persecution they’d experienced in the British Isles and continental Europe, therefore Catholics were tolerated. Get that through your head. Former territories of Mexico ceded to the United States due to war and treaties do not a founding people make.
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