Introduction Thread to "Final Authority"

Grady Publishing ^ | March 15, 1993 | William Grady

[Pilgrim's Progress]

We are going to go through this book in a very slow fashion - no hurry.

This subject is completely a matter of faith. Those that reject or do not possess a particular preference for the King James Bible are welcome to visit and participate - but this is not an argument thread. I am not responsible to convince anyone against his or her will.

Either you have faith in a God that is able to preserve His Word or you do not - but you are not going to convince us to reject our faith that the King James Bible is the ONLY Bible that God is blessing for the English Speaking people. And He has been doing it for the past 406 years

If you want on or off the PING list please Freepmail me, thanks.

[unlearner]

Quit calling the Word of God “babbling” you wicked, depraved blasphemer.

[WhatNot]

I see you have a messiah complex too. Now your soapbox rants are the word of God? I should warn you about what God says about adding to His word, but just like your modern per-version Bible translators, that warning would fall on deaf ears.

[unlearner]

I have backed up my words with scriptures, and you have shown no reverence for the Word of God.

You continue to LIE while hypocritically calling me a liar. I did not add one iota to the Word of God.

You are a liar, hypocrite, and blasphemer of the Word of God.

[WhatNot]

The Word of God I revere, it’s you I don’t take seriously. And any normal person who’s been following this discussion can see why.

[unlearner]

You’re like a man doing target practice with his first-born a foot from the target. No sense of caution.

When someone is quoting the Word of God, and you make blanket derogatory statements about their posts, that shows a total disrespect for the Bible.

I have repeatedly called you out for blaspheming God’s Word. You continue to do so.

When you discover that your picture posts are not working, you rush to find a solution. You can’t have yourself looking foolish now can you?

But you have not the slightest concern for how your malicious, false words dishonor the Lord.

His reputation is not important to you. But your own is very important.

It’s all a big joke to you.

You just heap more and more judgment upon yourself.

I tremble for the severe judgment you are bringing on yourself and your family.

You have no fear of God.

You keep talking on and on about what other people can see, what other people think, but do not consider what God sees and what His evaluation of the matter is.

[WhatNot]

You can’t have yourself looking foolish now can you?

Actually, I rushed to find a solution because I created a whole new picture post just for you. I hope you enjoy it! Because any reply from you from this point on, this is all you're going to get in response. You are so far out in LA LA Land, you're not worth the time it takes to type even one more letter on my keyboard.

[WhatNot]

Whoops that one has a typo, but don’t fret I’ll fix it on the next one. We can’t all be perfect like you.

[unlearner]

“you’re not worth the time it takes to type even one more letter on my keyboard.”

The blood of Jesus paid for me.

I belong to Him.

You dishonor me and Him.

[WhatNot]

There I think that's better, let me know what you think, so I can send you another one.

[unlearner]

“Is it true or is it false that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew (except for a very small portion of Daniel)and that it was divinely given to the Jews?”

OK. I relent. I’ll answer your question.

Generally, yes. This appears to be the case.

The majority of scholars believe that nearly all of the Old Testament was first written in Hebrew. They consider that parts of Daniel, Ezra, and some scattered verses were originally in Aramaic.

In fact, a single word in Psalm 2 was considered Aramaic by the KJV scholars, when they translated the last verse to begin “kiss the Son...”

However, keep in mind that this is history which is, for the most part, not necessarily supported or proved within the Bible itself.

We do not know from the Bible itself whether the very first autographs were mostly Hebrew in the Old Testament and Greek in the New Testament.

Much was written during and after the Babylonian captivity while many Jews mostly forgot Hebrew.

Aramaic was also the common language of the Jews during Christ’s earthly ministry. While Jesus seems, based on several passages, to have spoken Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, many of the Jews of that time were not fluent in Hebrew and needed the Old Testament scriptures to be translated into Aramaic when read at synagogue.

Paul calls himself a “Hebrew of the Hebrews.” And the Israelites were “Hebrews” before becoming Israel. Yet, many of them lost their ability to understand Hebrew or never had it at all. Therefore, the answer to your question is not a simple yes or no. But, generally, yes.

For the majority of the time that Israel existed up until Christ came, she did not have the scriptures available to her in her native language. Access to the written Word of God was absent, then came, went, and returned again.

You’ve been harping on this lynchpin question now for quite some time. Do you have a point?

[WhatNot]

Do you have a point?

Yes I do have a point.

However, the question I have now is for myself, "Do I want to continue the conversation?" You see by this time I find myself so put off by your extremely obnoxious personality that I have to decide if you're a person I'm willing to expend any more energy or time on.

I mean for me it was quite easy to answer your very simple question:

Do you have a point?

The the answer was "Yes I do".

Well I went back over our past discussion and counted how many replies it took you to answer my very simple question, “Is it true or is it false that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew (except for a very small portion of Daniel)and that it was divinely given to the Jews?” and I counted at least 7 or 8 very long and disjointed, mainly filled with non-sequiturs replies, until you finally answered. And based on that track record, this is a conversation that could go on for a lot more time then I'm willing to put into it.

Taking 7 or more replies to answer a simple true or false question tells me I'm not dealing with a person who wants to have an intelligent conversation, but rather a person who's vain, self-important and is really into grandstanding.

So at this juncture, I'm fed up with you and the whole conversation, but perhaps later as God deals with your heart and shows you how to behave in a more hospitable way towards others you disagree with. ( I mean obviously, I don't mind a little sarcasm now and then, its good to use once in a while to make a point, but you went way beyond sarcasm and straight into outright hostility).

Humbling yourself a little today and finally answering my simple question is a good start for you and it may be the first step in a much longer journey of where God will eventually lead you. But as for me, at this moment, I don't like being involved with you, but I may change my mind at some point depending on certain factors, which include how you respond to this reply and how you respond to future replies from others in your circle of influence, I'll keep my eyes open to watch how things go.

Have a nice day.

[af_vet_1981]

Paul wrote the book of Romans, not surprisingly, to all of the believers in Rome:

Yes, to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints, whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

The passage is telling us that we, Gentiles, have become partakers of the “root and fatness” of the olive tree. What I was describing to be not precisely correct in your first statement is “Righteous Gentiles are grafted onto Israel.” Gentile Christians are grafted into Christ, not into Israel.

The Gentiles who believed were grafted in among the natural branches and have become partakers of the root and fatness of the olive tree (which is Israel, or the commonwealth of Israel if you would, the Gentiles being included). At no time did I write that Gentiles became Jews. That would be akin to men becoming women, or vice versa. One remains in the calling in which one was called (Timothy is an excellent example, which is why he was circumcise while Titus was not).

What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest. [16] The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken

Jeremiah, Catholic chapter eleven, Protestant verses fifteen to sixteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[unlearner]

“At no time did I write that Gentiles became Jews.”

I understand. The concern I expressed was merely that some might incorrectly infer that from the assumption that the olive tree is Israel.

The passage about the olive tree can be easily misunderstood if we are not careful. Some have misunderstood that Gentiles are supposed to convert to Judaism in order to become followers of Christ.

The apostles settled this issue fairly early. Jews who believe on Christ retain their Jewishness. Gentiles who believe in Christ do not need to become Jews in order to become Christians.

This whole question may seem silly today, but the early church was entirely Jewish at first. And this was part of God’s design.

Paul had to contend frequently with “Judaizers” who opposed his Gospel of the grace of God, insisting that Jewish Christians were supposed to proselytize Gentiles to practice Judaism in order for these Gentiles to be saved.

Paul gives us a balanced and nuanced approach to Jew and Gentile relations within the church.

But this is why I pointed out that the wild olive branches being grafted into the natural olive tree is a picture of Gentiles becoming connected to Christ.