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Scripture and Tradition
Catholic.com ^

Posted on 06/18/2017 2:09:43 PM PDT by narses

Protestants claim the Bible is the only rule of faith, meaning that it contains all of the material one needs for theology and that this material is sufficiently clear that one does not need apostolic tradition or the Church’s magisterium (teaching authority) to help one understand it. In the Protestant view, the whole of Christian truth is found within the Bible’s pages. Anything extraneous to the Bible is simply non-authoritative, unnecessary, or wrong—and may well hinder one in coming to God.

Catholics, on the other hand, recognize that the Bible does not endorse this view and that, in fact, it is repudiated in Scripture. The true "rule of faith"—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly.

In the Second Vatican Council’s document on divine revelation, Dei Verbum (Latin: "The Word of God"), the relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end. For sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

"Thus, by the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence."

But Evangelical and Fundamentalist Protestants, who place their confidence in Martin Luther’s theory of sola scriptura (Latin: "Scripture alone"), will usually argue for their position by citing a couple of key verses. The first is this: "These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31). The other is this: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be equipped, prepared for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16–17). According to these Protestants, these verses demonstrate the reality of sola scriptura (the "Bible only" theory).

Not so, reply Catholics. First, the verse from John refers to the things written in that book (read it with John 20:30, the verse immediately before it to see the context of the statement in question). If this verse proved anything, it would not prove the theory of sola scriptura but that the Gospel of John is sufficient.

Second, the verse from John’s Gospel tells us only that the Bible was composed so we can be helped to believe Jesus is the Messiah. It does not say the Bible is all we need for salvation, much less that the Bible is all we need for theology; nor does it say the Bible is even necessary to believe in Christ. After all, the earliest Christians had no New Testament to which they could appeal; they learned from oral, rather than written, instruction. Until relatively recent times, the Bible was inaccessible to most people, either because they could not read or because the printing press had not been invented. All these people learned from oral instruction, passed down, generation to generation, by the Church.

Much the same can be said about 2 Timothy 3:16-17. To say that all inspired writing "has its uses" is one thing; to say that only inspired writing need be followed is something else. Besides, there is a telling argument against claims of Evangelical and Fundamentalist Protestants. John Henry Newman explained it in an 1884 essay entitled "Inspiration in its Relation to Revelation."

Newman’s argument

He wrote: "It is quite evident that this passage furnishes no argument whatever that the sacred Scripture, without Tradition, is the sole rule of faith; for, although sacred Scripture is profitable for these four ends, still it is not said to be sufficient. The Apostle [Paul] requires the aid of Tradition (2 Thess. 2:15). Moreover, the Apostle here refers to the scriptures which Timothy was taught in his infancy.

"Now, a good part of the New Testament was not written in his boyhood: Some of the Catholic epistles were not written even when Paul wrote this, and none of the books of the New Testament were then placed on the canon of the Scripture books. He refers, then, to the scriptures of the Old Testament, and, if the argument from this passage proved anything, it would prove too much, viz., that the scriptures of the New Testament were not necessary for a rule of faith."

Furthermore, Protestants typically read 2 Timothy 3:16-17 out of context. When read in the context of the surrounding passages, one discovers that Paul’s reference to Scripture is only part of his exhortation that Timothy take as his guide Tradition and Scripture. The two verses immediately before it state: "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:14–15).

Paul tells Timothy to continue in what he has learned for two reasons: first, because he knows from whom he has learned it—Paul himself—and second, because he has been educated in the scriptures. The first of these is a direct appeal to apostolic tradition, the oral teaching which the apostle Paul had given Timothy. So Protestants must take 2 Timothy 3:16-17 out of context to arrive at the theory of sola scriptura. But when the passage is read in context, it becomes clear that it is teaching the importance of apostolic tradition!

The Bible denies that it is sufficient as the complete rule of faith. Paul says that much Christian teaching is to be found in the tradition which is handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). He instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later. Jesus told his disciples: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative. He commissioned them, saying, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).

And how was this to be done? By preaching, by oral instruction: "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. It is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.

Further, it is clear that the oral teaching of Christ would last until the end of time. "’But the word of the Lord abides for ever.’ That word is the good news which was preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:25). Note that the word has been "preached"—that is, communicated orally. This would endure. It would not be supplanted by a written record like the Bible (supplemented, yes, but not supplanted), and would continue to have its own authority.

This is made clear when the apostle Paul tells Timothy: "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). Here we see the first few links in the chain of apostolic tradition that has been passed down intact from the apostles to our own day. Paul instructed Timothy to pass on the oral teachings (traditions) that he had received from the apostle. He was to give these to men who would be able to teach others, thus perpetuating the chain. Paul gave this instruction not long before his death (2 Tim. 4:6–8), as a reminder to Timothy of how he should conduct his ministry.

What is Tradition?

In this discussion it is important to keep in mind what the Catholic Church means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.

They have been handed down and entrusted to the Churchs. It is necessary that Christians believe in and follow this tradition as well as the Bible (Luke 10:16). The truth of the faith has been given primarily to the leaders of the Church (Eph. 3:5), who, with Christ, form the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). The Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit, who protects this teaching from corruption (John 14:25-26, 16:13).

Handing on the faith

Paul illustrated what tradition is: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . . Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed" (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).

The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).

This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:1–4). What’s more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14. These and other things have been given to Christians "through the Lord Jesus" (1 Thess. 4:2).

Fundamentalists say Jesus condemned tradition. They note that Jesus said, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?" (Matt. 15:3). Paul warned, "See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ" (Col. 2:8). But these verses merely condemn erroneous human traditions, not truths which were handed down orally and entrusted to the Church by the apostles. These latter truths are part of what is known as apostolic tradition, which is to be distinguished from human traditions or customs.

"Commandments of men"

Consider Matthew 15:6–9, which Fundamentalists and Evangelicals often use to defend their position: "So by these traditions of yours you have made God’s laws ineffectual. You hypocrites, it was a true prophecy that Isaiah made of you, when he said, ‘This people does me honor with its lips, but its heart is far from me. Their worship is in vain, for the doctrines they teach are the commandments of men.’" Look closely at what Jesus said.

He was not condemning all traditions. He condemned only those that made God’s word void. In this case, it was a matter of the Pharisees feigning the dedication of their goods to the Temple so they could avoid using them to support their aged parents. By doing this, they dodged the commandment to "Honor your father and your mother" (Ex. 20:12).

Elsewhere, Jesus instructed his followers to abide by traditions that are not contrary to God’s commandments. "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice" (Matt. 23:2–3).

What Fundamentalists and Evangelicals often do, unfortunately, is see the word "tradition" in Matthew 15:3 or Colossians 2:8 or elsewhere and conclude that anything termed a "tradition" is to be rejected. They forget that the term is used in a different sense, as in 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15, to describe what should be believed. Jesus did not condemn all traditions; he condemned only erroneous traditions, whether doctrines or practices, that undermined Christian truths. The rest, as the apostles taught, were to be obeyed. Paul commanded the Thessalonians to adhere to all the traditions he had given them, whether oral or written.

The indefectible Church

The task is to determine what constitutes authentic tradition. How can we know which traditions are apostolic and which are merely human? The answer is the same as how we know which scriptures are apostolic and which are merely human—by listening to the magisterium or teaching authority of Christ’s Church. Without the Catholic Church’s teaching authority, we would not know with certainty which purported books of Scripture are authentic. If the Church revealed to us the canon of Scripture, it can also reveal to us the "canon of Tradition" by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the apostles. After all, Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18) and the New Testament itself declares the Church to be "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Mainline Protestant
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To: Luircin

You asked, “If the body of Christ was not actually present, why would Paul comment on discerning it?” IF you read the Bible, you know the Body of Christ IS PRESENT, the believers there for communion ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST.


281 posted on 06/20/2017 7:17:55 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: FatherofFive

Does the Holy Spirit guide the college of cardinals in the selection of the new pope?


282 posted on 06/20/2017 7:19:38 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: Luircin
And that Paul confirms it.

Where?

283 posted on 06/20/2017 7:21:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MHGinTN

Some additional thoughts:

Paul’s comments about the Church being the Body of Christ come after a break in the letter; all his references to the Body of Christ in Communion end with what we would refer to as chapter 11.

After that he refers to the Church as a body in reference to spiritual gifts, not to Communion. A complete subject change.

You would think that he would tie them closer together if he meant to command the people not to take the Lord’s Supper with literal meaning.

(You would also think that he wouldn’t use the word ‘is,’ and that it wouldn’t have been common Christian confession at the time.)


284 posted on 06/20/2017 7:22:01 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: MHGinTN

“IF you read the Bible, you know the Body of Christ IS PRESENT, the believers there for communion ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST.”

Read my previous post for comments on that.

But the whole ‘if you read the Bible’ thing caught my attention. I seem to be making you upset, when I’m trying hard to be courteous but firm in my beliefs.

Are you all right? It’s fun to taunt the holier-than-thou on this forum, but I don’t want to cause a flame war here.


285 posted on 06/20/2017 7:23:54 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: MHGinTN
Just what was on my mind.

The "Communion" is not an object to be looked at. Communion is the union /unity concerning common beliefs and parctices shared. "Common" + "union" = Communion, the Body of Christ assembled in unity.

Breaking of Bread = the visible co-consumption of the emblems representing Jesus' Cross-death as a memorial, that we may never forget His suffering in our place.

I shun using the word "sacrament" -- belongs too much to the practice of codified religious rituals . . .

286 posted on 06/20/2017 7:24:11 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: FatherofFive
Our current pope is a heretic.

According to what evidence?

287 posted on 06/20/2017 7:24:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: FatherofFive
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

So WHY has Rome decided to CHANGE what the ECFs taught on this matter?

It's been posted in this thread.

288 posted on 06/20/2017 7:25:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Luircin
The ‘cut in sunder’ servant has no faith. It quite clearly says that he is with the unbelievers.

First it reads, "Fear not, little flock." He speaks to the disciples. The Apostle Peter specifically asks if the parable applies to just them or to all. It shows the reward for the servant who is found faithful when his Lord returns. It progresses to the "But and if" section.
289 posted on 06/20/2017 7:26:06 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Elsie

1 Corinthians 11.

You may not take the words in the same way I do, but I simply was stating what I believe in that post.


290 posted on 06/20/2017 7:27:10 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: ebb tide
When I’m in my back yard, mosquitos also get my attention.

Then they MUST be poorly catechized Catholic mosquitos that somehow think that YOU are Jesus and that drinking YOUR blood will be VERY beneficial to themselves.

291 posted on 06/20/2017 7:27:54 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Luircin
Think for a minute: Jesus said that where two or more are gathered in His name, there is He in the midst of them. HE REALLY IS PRESENT when Christians gather in HIS name to show HIS death for them until He comes. Catch the 'until He comes'? HE is present spiritually; He is coming physically for us.

The heart of man is desperately wicked. Who can know it? ... When CHRISTIANS gather for communion, they gather to remember and show why they are CHRISTIANS, not to eat and drink the man Jesus. Paul calls the symbols what they are bread and wine (well, the cup ... of wine). The pagans in that day gathered to eat the god they worshipped. In an act of their will they gathered to eat the food brought for sacrifice to the idol then ate it believing (by their will believing, not by The Spirit of Truth) they got their god in them vias their alimentary tract.

292 posted on 06/20/2017 7:28:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Elsie

I’m also bothered by wasps in my backyard.


293 posted on 06/20/2017 7:31:33 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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To: MHGinTN
God forbade the drinking of blood.

And the early Catholics agree:

Acts 15:28-29
 
 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.
You will do well to avoid these things.

294 posted on 06/20/2017 7:33:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: af_vet_1981

I... am not sure how that disproves anything that I said.

It seems fairly clear to me that the servant in that parable has no faith in his master, and either is not or is no longer a believer.

I’m not sure how you get that you are saved by your works from that, especially considering all the other verses in Scripture that specifically state that we have no justification by works.

From what I’m reading in the Bible, sounds to me like works are the proof that faith exists, and eternal rewards are given based upon those good works.


295 posted on 06/20/2017 7:34:13 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: MHGinTN

Missing verses FOUND!!

‘Tis ok; however; to drink the blood of your GOD and to eat the meat of a crucified human.


296 posted on 06/20/2017 7:35:09 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

In Scripture there are also laws and exceptions thereof.

I am making the argument that Jesus’ specific command is a specific exception to the aspect of idol worship that drinking blood would be part of.


297 posted on 06/20/2017 7:35:47 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: MHGinTN
Just what was on my mind.

The "Communion" is not an object to be looked at. Communion is the union /unity concerning common beliefs and parctices shared. "Common" + "union" = Communion, the Body of Christ assembled in unity.

Breaking of Bread = the visible co-consumption of the emblems representing Jesus' Cross-death as a memorial, that we may never forget His suffering in our place.

I shun using the word "sacrament" -- belongs too much to the practice of codified religious rituals . . . I didn't read about Jesus and the disciples doing much of that.

298 posted on 06/20/2017 7:36:38 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: MHGinTN
... the believers there for communion ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST.

'Tis amazing the folks that miss:

1 Corinthians 12:27

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

299 posted on 06/20/2017 7:37:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MHGinTN

The pagans in that day gathered to eat the god they worshipped. In an act of their will they gathered to eat the food brought for sacrifice to the idol then ate it believing (by their will believing, not by The Spirit of Truth) they got their god in them vias their alimentary tract.

***

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with the first part. The Lord is omnipresent, after all; he can be wherever he desires, and he has made several promises about where he specifically is.

Second: If I remember my history correctly, most of those pagan cults came into being a few centuries after Christ.

Third, to quote from an earlier post: “21. Hence we hereby utterly [reject and] condemn the Capernaitic eating of the body of Christ, as though [we taught that] His flesh were rent with the teeth, and digested like other food, which the Sacramentarians, against the testimony of their conscience, after all our frequent protests, wilfully force upon us, and in this way make our doctrine odious to their hearers; and on the other hand, we maintain and believe, according to the simple words of the testament of Christ, the true, yet supernatural eating of the body of Christ, as also the drinking of His blood, which human senses and reason do not comprehend, but as in all other articles of faith our reason is brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and this mystery is not apprehended otherwise than by faith alone, and revealed in the Word alone.”

So that argument about the alimentary tract really doesn’t apply to what I believe.


300 posted on 06/20/2017 7:40:09 PM PDT by Luircin
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