Posted on 06/10/2017 8:12:43 AM PDT by ealgeone
Question: "To whom are we to pray, the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit?"
Answer: All prayer should be directed to our triune God—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that we can pray to one or all three, because all three are one. To the Father we pray with the psalmist, “Listen to my cry for help, my King and my God, for to you I pray” (Psalm 5:2). To the Lord Jesus, we pray as to the Father because they are equal. Prayer to one member of the Trinity is prayer to all. Stephen, as he was being martyred, prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit” (Acts 7:59). We are also to pray in the name of Christ. Paul exhorted the Ephesian believers to always give “thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 5:20). Jesus assured His disciples that whatever they asked in His name—meaning in His will—would be granted (John 15:16; 16:23).
We are told to pray in the Spirit and in His power. The Spirit helps us to pray, even when we do not know how or what to ask for (Romans 8:26; Jude 20). Perhaps the best way to understand the role of the Trinity in prayer is that we pray to the Father, through (or in the name of) the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit. All three are active participants in the believer’s prayer.
Equally important is whom we are not to pray to. Some non-Christian religions encourage their adherents to pray to a pantheon of gods, dead relatives, saints, and spirits. Roman Catholics are taught to pray to Mary and various saints. Such prayers are not scriptural and are, in fact, an insult to our heavenly Father. To understand why, we need only look at the nature of prayer. Prayer has several elements, and if we look at just two of them—praise and thanksgiving—we can see that prayer is, at its very core, worship. When we praise God, we are worshipping Him for His attributes and His work in our lives. When we offer prayers of thanksgiving, we are worshipping His goodness, mercy, and loving-kindness to us. Worship gives glory to God, the only One who deserves to be glorified. The problem with praying to anyone other than God is that He will not share His glory. In fact, praying to anyone or anything other than God is idolatry. “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols” (Isaiah 42:8).
Other elements of prayer such as repentance, confession, and petition are also forms of worship. We repent knowing that God is a forgiving and loving God and He has provided a means of forgiveness in the sacrifice of His Son on the cross. We confess our sins because we know “He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9) and we worship Him for it. We come to Him with our petitions and intercessions because we know He loves us and hears us, and we worship Him for His mercy and kindness in being willing to hear and answer. When we consider all this, it is easy to see that praying to someone other than our triune God is unthinkable because prayer is a form of worship, and worship is reserved for God and God alone. Whom are we to pray to? The answer is God. Praying to God, and God alone, is far more important than to which Person of the Trinity we address our prayers.
Oh I answered your question, you just didn’t like the answer. Dead souls do that occasionally. Don’t be a dead soul.
You’re calling an avatar a “dead soul”. This is a discussion of ideas.
Answer yes or no: If a person commits all the evil they want, with no activity of their free will to accept God’s grace, do they go to heaven?
John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Acts 16:27-31 When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.” And the jailer called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3:20-30 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Romans 4:1-25 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
No. Sinners do not go to heaven.
They have not accepted God's offer of eternal life in Christ Jesus.
You are aware, aren't you, that EVERYONE is hell bound unless they get saved? It's the default option for mankind unless they choose to accept God's gift of eternal life.
2 James 2:17So too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.
Works justify a man’s faith to other men.
They do not justify man before God.
Matt. 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Agreed. That is not its purpose. You are to do good deeds because that is the mark of a true Christian and it inspires others to do good. It makes the world a better place.
The article linked in post 80 has the answer:
‘How could anyone who understands God’s unconditional and guaranteed love for those who believe, take that love and throw it back in God’s face? Such a person is demonstrating not that eternal security has given him a license to sin, but rather that he or she has not truly experienced salvation through Jesus Christ. “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him” (1 John 3:6).’
So, at times we do slip up and MAY not have salvation. We pray for others that they get back on track and obtain it. And want others to pray for us to do the same. Not controversial.
Again I offer, place your trust ONLY in Jesus and be born from above. Stop striving to be worthy of God's Grace. You will never balance up the debt. Jesus paid it all, all to Him you owe. Sin is poison tot eh soul and is the natural effluent of a dead spirit. We are all born with a dead spirit and as Jesus explained to Nicodemus, we must be born again, in the spirit, to see the Kingdom.
You want a yes or no because you're still searching for an escape clause int he contract, so you can boast of your effort to be worthy. Stop it! Just accept HIS deliverance for your dead spirit and be born from above. HE will change your want to, so you will no longer asked oblique questions about commiting all the evil one wants.
Faith without deeds is dead faith. It sounded as if RG2 wanted to be able to keep on sinning after he/she is “saved”. IF you are saved you wish to please God. Follow Gods Commands. The Holy Spirit will guide you to want to do more. If one wants to coast and do the minimum then I question their faith.
I’m not explaing my points to you well.
To obtain God’s grace, as you say, we must put our trust in God first, right?
Once they do this, do people slip back by their own bad choices of lost trust?
The original question was the efficacy of praying for others. Do you think it’s helpful for you to ask God to ensure others do put their trust in God, and keep it?
The question is...will a follower of Christ commit all the evil they want?
If the person hasn't accepted Christ as Savior they aren't going to Heaven period.
I mean, if the saints in heaven can hear and help, those would be the first ones I’d try to get in touch with. You KNOW they made it!!
Good point...
As a grandfather, I make this prayer almost daily, for my children and their spouses and the garndkids. I'm alive. I pary to The God Who IS. I don'tr not pray to persons who are dead, and sadly, I do not pray for salvation for dead relatives because their fate is ONLY in the purview of GOD ALMIGHTY once they die
I do not pray to dead people seeking their intervention. JESUS is Alive forevermore, so I pray through and to Him.
If you are a Catholic, has it ever entered your thoughts that your religion insists Mary was taken to Heaven without dying or taken bodily into Heaven and made alive there, so she can field millions of prays per minute, yet you are taught that you can pray to dead 'saints' believing they can intercede for you or those for whom you pray, even though they are no longer in the body? Why the special status for the Mother of Jesus when the Word of GOD is silent on these things? Does this ever make you wonder about the demigoddess status your religion has ascribed to the Mother of Jesus?
I knew this would end up as a Protestant v. Catholic thread.
It’s funny when they complain about Protestants commenting on “Catholic” threads and arguing with them, but there sure is no shortage of Catholics posting their arguments on RF threads NOT opened by a Catholic. I don’t mind it a bit nor does Ealgeone, I’m sure. We aren’t afraid of defending the faith and welcome the chance to do so. Right, Ealgeone?
Without a doubt...
No. at times we slip up and can still be assured that we are held in the Father's hands, that He will lose none of those who come to Him.
Our salvation IN CHRIST is secure IN HIM.
John 6:37-39 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.