Understanding the Times with Jan Markell -It Could Happen Today (radio)

I approach all things involving Christ and His return with this:

"Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong"

1 Corinthians 16:13

I will continue to watch (until I am taken or the end of my life), to look at what is going on in the culture, in politics, in the economy, and in the church.

Don't you?

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and to them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin to salvation."

Hebrews 9:28

I truly believe that those who are waiting and watching the signs of the times for His return are following Scripture. How many parables did Christ make about this? The Ten Virgins. The Servant and the Master. The servants in the field and the women grinding at the mill. And others.

If we are watching, and we believe His return can come at any time, then I believe we live more holy and righteous lives, because we do not want to be found sleeping when the Master returns.

I never fell for the Harold Camping or any other garbage.

But I do attempt to stay awake during these very perilous times.

Pinging the End Times ping list

[[Lera,

Could you ping the prophecy list? I would be interested in their opinions. I am also especially interested in hearing from Freeper submareener, who I believe is well informed on this topic.

Thanks.]]

Added
God bless you too :)

Lera, please add me to your Prophecy list. Thank you and God bless. May we all be found worthy.

I love Jan Markel and I understand why she and the pastor feel this way about this.

I serve an awesome God who is capable of telling us a story through the stars . The movement of the stars are a clockwork so precise that since we have solved the math for it we can tell where the stars were thousands of years ago and where they will be in the future . This is not astrology , it’s astronomy. (the pastor is wrong to call it astrology)

Can you tell the future from looking at the stars ? No
The precise clockwork of the stars testifies to a creator and not a random bang .

If you look in the Old Testament at the names of patriarchs in Hebrew , the names themselves tell a story .

Name - Meaning
Adam = man
Seth = appointed
Enosh = mortal
Kenan = sorrow
Mahalalel = blessed God
Jared = shall come down
Enoch = teaching
Methuselah = his death shall bring
Lamech - the despairing
Noah - comfort , rest

Man is appointed mortal sorrow .
The blessed God shall come down teaching.
His death shall bring the despairing comfort and rest .

Could you set a time by looking at the meaning of those words ? No (Daniel actually tells us when he came if you pay attention)
but the meaning names even testify of our creator and that bible isn’t a book written by man .The more little treasure you find like this hidden in the bible the more you understand that God told them what to write letter by letter

The bible tells us that he named the stars , they tell a story too .Astrology and astronomy are not the same thing.
Astrology is a Babylonian corruption of Hebrew Mazzaroth
the astronomical constellations .

I have the Stellarium program and I have been watching for years . It’s a little different in 2017 than in 2005 if you pay close attention you will see a difference (little details can be amazing)
Does this mean the rapture will happen that day ? No it doesn’t
but I think it does tell a story and the pastor is partially right that the passage is about Israel and her past and Jesus ascension He is the head but we are the BODY and he is coming taking his body out too :)

Another thing is we tend to forget that this is a Jewish full of Jewish idioms and NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR happens to be an idiom for a ancient Jewish wedding , only the father of the groom knew exactly when that wedding would happen . After being pledge to the bride by drinking from a cup of wine the groom went home to prepare a place for his bride and the father of the groom was the one who decided if that place was ready for the bride . When you drink from that communion cup it is a wedding vow

There is also a second Jewish idiom for no ones the day or the hour and that is the biblical feast of Yom Teruah
It’s called because they had to watch for a sign in the sky to know when it was to take place .

We are always supposed to be watching and waiting like he is coming today but keeping busy in the meantime. If you expect him to show up at any moment you will live your life accordingly and that’s why the reward is a crown of righteousness (if you really think he is coming you will live righteous)

Remember that the Greeks seek after wisdom but the Jews do seek after sign . I look at that sign in the sky and I don’t see an an astrological thing I see it and smile cause I see it tells a story to Israel

We are supposed to know the season of his coming
Yes he is coming again
Could it be this day ? Yes , could be sooner too could be tonight , the next night etc
Does this sign mean that’s the day of the rapture ?
No

It does tell a story though
The heavens do declare the glory of God .

[[Lera, please add me to your Prophecy list. Thank you and God bless. May we all be found worthy.]]

You’ve been added
God bless you too
He is the only that makes anyone worthy
You are either his and covered by the blood or you are not .
Keep looking up :)

Excellent response Lera thank you. All of what you said is very inspirational, and I also agree that the times and seasons set forth by the stars and the moon are astronomy, not astrology, as this pastor said today. Moreover, I am not convinced that this event occurs every few years as you stated. Was he talking about just the crown of stars at the Virgo's constellation head? There is much more laid out in Revelation 12 than that. Then he claimed that every one who studies this coming sign take things out of context and skips versus in Revelation 12 on purpose. That is definitely not true and I have seen many commentators who do not do what he claimed. Also, just as Jesus was born of Israel, the woman, the believers come from the woman Israel as we are grafted onto the branch. In the Bible is full of foreshadowing events and multiple contextual examples of God's message and themes.

In any case, I was very disappointed in Jan's program today. I just wanted to know if anyone felt the same way.

Versus = Verses

Exactly

The sign was not complete in 2005
2017 is different , lot of detail difference
It’s not the same thing and he isn’t paying attention to the details .

This is the jubilee year too
and Israel’s 70th birthday

He is the head , we are the body :)

bkmk

“We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.”

Link referenced: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/doctrine-of-imminency-is-it-biblical

The link your cited which argues for the doctrine of imminency, uses the following scriptures to support this position. I will make my point after each reference.

Matt. 25:13
Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

This is part of the Olivet discourse. In Matthew 24:36, He says, “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” This is indisputably in reference to His coming as we read of in verses 29 and 30, AFTER the Great Tribulation. The pre-tribulation view does not treat the second coming as imminent, before or during the 70th week of Daniel. Yet Christ says that when He comes at the end of the Great Tribulation, no one will know the day or hour. How is that?

If Christ says of His coming after the Great Tribulation will happen at a time no one knows, then could it happen at “any moment”? Obviously not. First the Great Tribulation must occur. He also describes His coming after the Great Tribulation as coming like a thief. The same description is used in the first letter to the Thessalonians and in Revelations.

John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

All those who believe in the literal, bodily, premillennial return of our Lord to the earth to reign recognize that the rapture means being with Christ. Nothing in this passage, to my knowledge, addresses the particular disagreement at hand.

Titus 2:13
Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

All of us consider the return of Christ to be our “blessed hope.” Again, nothing in this passage, to my knowledge, addresses the particular disagreement at hand.

1 Cor. 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The author of the article claims that this verse supports a distinction between the rapture of the church and the second coming at the end of the Great Tribulation. No such distinction exists in this passage.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Again, the author of the article claims that this verse supports a distinction between the rapture of the church and the second coming at the end of the Great Tribulation. No such distinction exists in this passage, either.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Once more, the author of the article claims that this verse supports a distinction between the rapture of the church and the second coming at the end of the Great Tribulation. No such distinction exists in this passage, either.

1 John 3:2-3
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

And one more time, the author of the article claims that this verse supports a distinction between the rapture of the church and the second coming at the end of the Great Tribulation. No such distinction exists in this passage, either.

For clarification, there is a distinction related to various aspects of Christ’s second coming. We meet Him in the air. But He will also return to the earth, as we read of Him planting His feet upon the Mt. Olivet and it splitting into two parts. First He will gather His saints to Him, later the wicked will be gathered up and removed. However, this does not support a second and third coming. It does not contradict a pre-wrath rapture. And it does not support imminency.

The author argues that “the Second Coming of Christ does not deal primarily with the saint but with the sinner” using the next 5 references.

Revelation 19:17-20
Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.” And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:1-3
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.” Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?” And the King will answer and say to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.” Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.” Then they also will answer Him, saying, “Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?” Then He will answer them, saying, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

Romans 11:26-27
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

One problem with using this dispensational view of Israel to support a pre-trib view is that Israel clearly will be deceived by the Anti-Christ. Jesus said that Israel rejected Him when He came in His Father’s name, but that they will receive one who is coming in his own name. It is only when Israel looks on Him whom they have pierced that they will sorrow unto repentance. This event will not be a secret rapture at the beginning of Daniel’s seventieth week. Nor will it be when Christ shows up at the end of it to defeat the anti-Christ. But it will occur when He visibly returns for the church AFTER the Great Tribulation but before the Day of Wrath as we read in Revelation 6 and 7.

Philippians 3:20
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

All believers, not just those misled by the pre-trib doctrine, eagerly await Christ’s return.

Titus 2:13
Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Ditto.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

How does the author claim there is a distinction between the rapture and second coming, deny that the rapture is the second coming, and then use this reference to the SECOND COMING to support us “looking” for His return? As I pointed out in the earlier post, we look, watch, and see the Day of the Lord, not by looking up at the sky, but by watching for the signs of His soon return. When we see ALL of those signs, then we will start looking up, because THEN and only then will His return be imminent. Those who are expecting Him before these signs are those who will later say, “Behold my Lord delays His coming,” but in reality, Christ will come exactly when His Father has determined for Him to return. No sooner. No later.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Wrath. Not tribulation. We all must go through tribulation. Tribulation is NOT wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:6
Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

Again, watching is not looking up but looking for the signs.

1 Thessalonians 4:18
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It is even more comforting to those who are going through great trials. Pre-tribbers often claim that knowing we must go through the Great Tribulation takes away hope. But we are to pray to escape all these things. We must endure to the end. When you accept the reality that tribulation is NOT optional for the believer, then it becomes obvious that tribulation does not make Christ’s return less hopeful but much more.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

Expecting Christ to come in one’s lifetime is not the same as believing He might come at any moment. I also believe He will come in my lifetime. I do not believe He will arrive without the signs of His return, which He provided for us in scripture, happening first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Again, I also expect to remain until the coming of the Lord. This in no way requires believing He may come at any moment.

2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you...

The author says, “Many have concluded that the expectation of some was so strong they had ceased their work and had to be exhorted to return to their labors.” And Paul corrected this by teaching them that the Day of the Lord would NOT come until certain signs had been fulfilled. In verse 3 he wrote: “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.” Again, the Day of the Christ is AFTER the Great Tribulation. And it is when Christ will rapture the church. Revelation 8, onward, is predominantly about this Day of Wrath.

1 Timothy 6:14
That you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing.

Once more, I also expect to remain until the coming of the Lord. This in no way requires believing He may come at any moment.

Hebrews 10:37
For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.

Christ’s return is rightfully described as certain, soon, sudden, and surprising. None of these things infer that He may return at any moment or that His return will be signless. Teaching that His return is signless causes those who identify as Christians to NOT look for the signs which Christ gave us.

2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread.

Paul also told them what signs to look for that would precede the Day of Christ.

James 5:8
You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

Patience as a requirement makes more sense to those who are suffering tribulation.

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

Again, the certain, soon, sudden, surprising return of Christ need not be signless.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The author claims that the language of this passage distinguishes this event from the rapture, describing instead the wrath God will be pouring out on the world. The problem is that the passage clearly teaches that this IS the rapture. In the preceding verse Paul writes, “and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels.” Does the author believe that our rest will NOT occur at the rapture but rather after Daniel’s seventieth week? The author claims this is an event distinct from the rapture, yet the passage says we will enter into rest at the same exact time that God pours out fiery wrath on the wicked. This simply can not be reconciled with a pre-trib view. We enter rest and angels pour out fir judgments. Sounds an awful lot like what I’ve been describing as pre-wrath, as we find in Revelation 6-8.

We are worthy because HE is worthy!

Yes, I’m His. Thank you. :)

We are worthy by His blood shed for us. Amen. I am praying for a revival. Our nation needs one desperately.

My statement that “may we all be found worthy” was painting with a broader brush. So many who have turned away, and many “Christians” who inhabit the pews do not know Him as we do. So many have never heard the Gospel of Christ. It’s sad.

Exactly The sign was not complete in 2005 2017 is different , lot of detail difference

That's what I thought.

Thanks.

I believe there are several categories that have to be met:

Jupiter in Retrograde
Jupiter in the Womb
Days in Womb
Clothed in the Sun
Crown of 12 Stars
Moon at Feet
Alignment in Crown

What Pastor Crone said on Jan's program today was not correct on this point.

I understand Jan's reticence with "date setting." And again, if September comes and goes, then my faith is not shaken. I will keep waiting in hope, just as I hope the Rapture is this morning.

I went on Jan Markell's Facebook page to read comments regarding yesterday's segement with Pastor Billy Crone.

Apparently, I am not the only one who thought that their treatment of this subject was inconsistent and out of character with their usual high standard of programming.

https://www.facebook.com/olivetreeviews/

Vi White - This is the first verse of Revelation. How can Pastor Billy say that Rev. 12 is something that has already happened? John states that this is something that WILL take place.

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Rhonda Ross Jamison Wow... simply wow. Read Psalm 19!! It speaks of the heavens declaring the GLORY of the Lord... as a BRIDEGROOM COMING OUT OF HIS CHAMBER... as the sun completes its CIRCUIT!! Let's put this in astronomical terms... The Sun completes it's CIRCUIT of the Vernal Equinox this Fall - it completes in 6,000 years!! And don't forget Job 38!! Can YOU loosen Orion's belt?? Can YOU order the Mazorath?? I guess it takes the simple to confound the wise. These SIGNS are astronomically and mathematically PERFECT. The SIGNS are for us to take serious note... God said in Gen. 1:14 that the sun, moon and stars would be for SIGNS and Appointed Times. THIS sign... Is so extremely specific... And EVERYTHING about it ONLY happens ONCE IN 7 thousand years!! Christ didn't speak of His coming as imminent... He spoke in a Jewish IDIOM... Speaking DIRECTLY of the Feast of Trumpets ... An Appointed Time!! The Hidden Day and the Wedding Feast. Apostle Paul also referenced this Feast when he specifically said "at THE Last Trump". Most Bible teachers today have NO CLUE, save for a few, about the Prophetic significance and Timeline of the Lord's Feast Days. The Blood Moons were VERY timely... They were the 3rd in the series - God confirms His message in 3's!!! He used them to make the WORLD LOOK UP and TAKE SERIOUS NOTE!!! Now this astounding CELESTIAL convergence is being overlooked???? It baffles me!!! http://www.unsealed.org/.../the-revelation-12-sign...

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Dean Hanson I listen to Jan's show almost every week. This week was a sandbagged program with a narrative to debunk anything and everything of "signs in the sky/heaven" The over enthustiatic agreement with her guest was over the top. Scott Clarke (the fore runner of Youtube videos on Rev. 12) does not leave out certain verses of Rev. 12 . to make his point. He also clearly states that he is not setting a date for the rapture. About this Rev. 12 sign happening every approx. 11 years is highly misleading! It has not happened to the exact fulfillment as Rev. 12 describes in approx. 7k years. Yes some of the planets, also known as stars back in O.T. and early N.T. times, as well as some stars have come close...but no cigar! As far as immenicy, could also mean the exact hour or day that they see the moon for the Jewish feast day??

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April Horne I love your show Jan but Please take some time to really look into Scottie Clarke's videos. He is absolutely not teaching astrology. This is a very specific and rare sign in the constellation Virgo and it falls on 9/23/17. Scottie isn't saying that's the rapture date. There may be some 'teachers' out there that have latched onto what Scottie discovered (this heavenly sign on this particular date) and are giving incorrect and incomplete info about this. Thank you for your ministry

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Patti Gilliam If Revelation 12 has already taken place, and if the woman it refers to is Israel...when did THIS happen: "Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days (or 3-1/2 years)." Revelation 12:6?

quote-1. He believed that the events described in Revelation Chapter 12 “have already occurred” and described the birth of Christ 2,000 years ago.

If we accept that premise, it would destroy Rome’s basic teachings on Jesus of His birth. Show them to be false.
provable by the Word and His Creation.

That would be quite a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ’ wouldn’t it in today’s world?

What would the world do without December 25?

Since I’m getting stars in my eyes (and hope you are too), I invite all to check out “Ready for Rapture Astrology?” which can be read on the British blog “Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing” hosted by prophecy expert Treena Gisborn. (Caution: Be careful not to get Virgo vertigo when gazing at the latest “Christian” zodiac craze!)

Jan the believing Jewess would never want anyone to Google “Greatest Hebrew-Christian Scholars NOT Pretrib!”