Posted on 01/16/2017 4:33:19 PM PST by SeanG200
Mark Driscoll highlights the heretical view embedded in the Word Faith Movement's view of Christ's "finished work" on the cross at Calvary. A good snippet almost lost on the interweb. This video was edited and uploaded for use in this post: http://religiopoliticaltalk.com/jesus-descension-into-hell/
The full sermon this was clipped from can be listened to here: https://youtu.be/epv-JO4JEQM
Christ’s atonement is completely ignored by the profession church. Why? because they want you to seek salvation not from Him but through them through tithes ( not mentioned in the NEW TESTAMENT ) and they want your “works” i. e. your attendance in their building that you are paying for along with their house and car with your non required “tithe” . Christ hated the Temple Tax. Real Matthew 17:24 when He went to Capernaum. ( easy read) Note that Jesus says the God does not tax his children. Then also note that Jesus was not crucified until on the Thursday before he was sacrifice he attacke the MONEY COLLECTORS in the Jerusalem Temple!! Do you know why they were hanging money? It was because the priests would not take the roman coin and required SILVER for what? The temple tax !! Jesus is our Savior.
I am intrigued by the book written by Bartholomew who was a disciple of Jesus and an actual eye witness to Him. This book was strangely left out of the “bible” when t was voted on at the council of Laodecea, 330 years after Christ resurrection. Why? anyway, he writes that Jesus descended into hell and taunted Satan but so what. That has nothing to do with salvation by grace and it could have been is a time segment we don’t fathom. There is no SUN time in eternity. There is only SON time. ( go ahead and use that if you are a professional leach off of “gifts to God”— I don;t care)
The heresy is that Jesus went to Hell for three days to be tormented by the Devil. Thus His work on the Cross was insufficient, He had to suffer in Hell. How is this wrong. He said on the Cross “It is finished. Father I comment to you my Spirit.” Before that He told the thief “Today you will be with Me in paradise.”
If anything, He went to the place of the dead referred to as Abraham’s Bosom, otherwise known as Sheol, which He described in the parable about Lazarus the beggar and the rich man. There He proclaimed the Good News to the Old Testament saints that the time of Salvation had arrived. This was not the place of eternal torment, other wise known as Gehenna. Here the patriarchs, prophets, and all those who earnestly sought the Lord saw Him clearly and were delivered.
“The heresy is that Jesus went to Hell for three days to be tormented by the Devil. Thus His work on the Cross was insufficient, He had to suffer in Hell.”
Most definitely a heresy. You’re right. I never knew anyone believed this until just some years ago.
Jimmy Akin sums things up nicely: http://jimmyakin.com/jesus-descent-into-hell
What the CCC says about Christ descending into “Hell”: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm Perhaps the most important passage is this in CCC 633: “Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.”
Fr. William Saunders’ excellent explanation: http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/VISHELL.htm
Msgr. Mannion: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column/what-does-it-mean-to-say-that-jesus-descended-into-hell-2983/
The “harrowing of hell” : http://www.uscatholic.org/articles/201301/why-did-jesus-%E2%80%9Cdescend-hell%E2%80%9D-26836
Stephan Beale: http://catholicexchange.com/did-jesus-really-go-to-hell
Apparently there’s a book written on the subject by a theologian named Alyssa Pitstick: https://www.amazon.com/Light-Darkness-Balthasar-Catholic-Doctrine/dp/0802840396
Thank you for this. As a child, I recited the Apostles Creed without really comparing it to scripture. Never before had I compared the “he descended into hell “ part with Jesus’ own words on the cross.
A great reminder to always, always compare what we are being taught with scripture.
Some interesting reading for you:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?s=mark+driscoll&search=Search
Thank you. We are so misled by professional Christians who tell us” we are giving o GOD” That is bull shit. God OWNS EVERYTHING!!Do you fathom that God needs your $25?? Give me a break. God has everything. Keep your money but accept as true that Jesus is the SON of God!! John 3:16-18. and get off this “works” crap. You are TOTALLY FORGIVEN BY BELIEF!!
Thank you. We are so misled by professional Christians who tell us” we are giving o GOD” That is bull shit. God OWNS EVERYTHING!!Do you fathom that God needs your $25?? Give me a break. God has everything. Keep your money but accept as true that Jesus is the SON of God!! John 3:16-18. and get off this “works” crap. You are TOTALLY FORGIVEN BY BELIEF!!
Thank you. We are so misled by professional Christians who tell us” we are giving o GOD” That is bull shit. God OWNS EVERYTHING!!Do you fathom that God needs your $25?? Give me a break. God has everything. Keep your money but accept as true that Jesus is the SON of God!! John 3:16-18. and get off this “works” crap. You are TOTALLY FORGIVEN BY BELIEF!!
“Christ’s atonement is completely ignored by the profession church. Why? because they want you to seek salvation not from Him but through them through tithes ( not mentioned in the NEW TESTAMENT) “
so in the Old Testament we read:
Malachi 3:8-10 - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Malachi 3:10 - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].
Luke 6:38 - Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
and in the NEW TESTAMENT we read:
Hebrews: 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
I like how Paul sums up our giving in Christ: “God loves a cheerful giver”! God gives us love on top of love, and out of that bounty we are FREE to give cheerfully.
Yes Paul told them that was “not a command”. He also wrote this in Romans 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believe.” Tithing is Old Testament legalism. Absolutely clear. God owns every thing . We can’t give Him what is His already.
A little off topic- As I am not posting this to illustrate Christ descending to hell or not- but I just wanted to summarize hell- as it is a very serious issue that people don’t take seriously unfortunately- I couldn’t find recent threads speaking of hell- hope you don’t mind my posting it here? If so have a mod remove it- I won’t mind-
While i am not catholic, nor do i hold ot catholic traditions or many of their beliefs- We can at least agree that people in the catholic faith who did studies on hell like the following fella Alphonsus Liguori did, did a pretty good job of describing the seriousness of hell- following is my summation of his writings- these is not my own work- and I don’t wish to take credit for any of it- it’s just my thoughts based on what he wrote- Hell is no joke folks-
Just a few notes on Hell, based on explanations by a man called Alphonsus Liguori, a biblical scholar who has studied the issue thoroughly-
————Hell will be so fire so intense that it hurts the bones, not just the skin- (Ever had a bruised bone? It’s very very painful- now imagine all your bones hurting like that- That is what the fire will do- pain deep to the bones) The fire that we know today, as terrible as it can be, is child’s play compared to the supernatural fire of eternal damnation- This fire will literally boil the person’s inside- but will not kill them- It will broil the brain, but we will not feel relief by going unconscious- it will boil the bowels- but will not destroy them- “Thou shalt make them as an Oven of Fire, in the Time of Thy Anger” - Psalm 20:10. Folks, the person in hell is going to burn forever- This is serious business- God isn’t joking about this- He views sin that seriously-
-————Hell fire will not consume, nor give light- this is no ordinary fire- it is a supernatural fire- it does not consume the body so there will be no relief day and night-
-————Hell will also be freezing cold. “Let him pass from the snow water to excessive heat, and his sin even to hell.” (Job 24:19) one moment you are burning, then ext you are freezing- There3 will be no rest- No escape- constant torment
-————Hell will be a place of constant torment by demonic beings (Think about folks- When Job says horrors- He is not exasperating- it’s going to be horrifying- your worst nightmares played out constantly) “Before I go, and return no more, to a land that is dark and covered with the mist of death: a land of misery and darkness, where the shadow of death, and no order, but everlasting horror dwelleth.” (Job 10:22).
———— Hell will be a place where the person is forced to think about God and about the terrible choice they made while they were alive- constantly- this will eat at the person for eternity
————Hell is the place where the worm feeds on the flesh but does not consume the flesh- ie you will have a constant feeling of being eaten alive- Think about a simple itch and how annoying it can be- now imagine worms crawling all over your body- eating away- but never consuming the flesh- Just the sensation of it happening-
————Hell is a place where thirst can not be quenched- ever- try going 2 days without anything to drink- it’s not very fun, and is quite uncomfortable- Hell is eternal thirst- not just 2 days worth
-———Hell is a place of unimaginable overwhelming stench- Sin around some rotting meat on a hot day- I mean really putrid rotting meat- crawling with maggots- This is nothing compared to the inescapable stench of hell- if you are sensitive to foul odours- it’s is only going to be worse in hell-
————Hell is a place where there will be no relief from people constantly shrieking and screaming, both in anger and in pain- Ever try to sleep with loud noises present? Not very fun.
————Hell will be so crowded that you won’t be able to move- although it will be too dark to see anyone else- a person will be crowded- never able to find a comfortable spot to rest- always being shoved and manoeuvred around by unseen neighbouring damned-
-————Hell will be a place where memories torment the person always- never ceasing- always remembering how they rejected God when they had the chance to accept Him- This knowledge will never leave them and always haunt their minds- They shall never find peace again- ever-
————Hell will be a place where all our earthly desires to sin will be magnified many times- Whatever pet sins a person enjoys fulfilling now, that desire to fulfil them in hell will be magnified many times but they will be unable to full fill them-
————Hell will be a place where rage and anger and disdain and fury take hold and consume a being-
*********Take heed- Hell is not going to be a big party place- it’s serious business- God is very serious about sin- and He is giving us all every chance possible to avoid it while we are alive on earth- Sin has no place in a Holy Heaven- God was not kidding when He told adam and Eve not to eat that apple- They didn’t beleive Him- and no it wasn’t ‘just an innocent mistake on their part’ it was a serious blatant violation of God’s command not to eat of the tree-
************ Christ willingly gave His life, willingly sacrificed His life, willingly chose to lay His life down for yours- so that you, lost sinners, do not have to experience eternity without Him- He paid the price- Will you accept the gift?
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