"Adultery as a venial sin"- and other absurdities of defending the indefensible Francis Doctrine

Rorate Caeli ^ | September 15, 2016 | Dr. John Lamont

[MIA_eccl1212]

Perhaps you could straighten things out with Jesus for Ananias and Saphira. It may just be that he misunderstood his own commands to believers.
OR perhaps you might consider that lying will get one killed... by the angel of the Lord, nonetheless... if one does not repent.

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there are those who do not believe the bible is authoritative... however for those who do, the New Testament warns us, by the same Lord who offers us unlimited grace:

Rev 21:8
... the ONE that sat upon the THRONE said:
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

1 Corinthians 6:9 (speaking to Christians of course)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Galatians 5:20
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

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Being a Christian is NOT carte blanche to continue in sin that supposed ‘grace’ may abound. there is a law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, that sets one free of the law of sin and death... however, those who continue in sin without repentance, treading the blood of the covenant wherewith underfoot... put the Son of God to shame.

WE must always be careful of lawlessness that leads to death. We cannot live in sin and expect grace abound... God forbids it. for those who think they can... they need to consider themselves whether they actually be in the faith. How are we who are dead to sin, allowed to continue living in it. We aren’t. No one is perfect... but we are required to resist sin, and stop committing willful sin against the expressed will of God in his word... forgive and reconcile with errant spouses. NEW TESTAMENT: do NOT divorce wife, do not leave husband... we are liberated from sin that we may become SLAVES to Christ.

Liberty is not license. License to sin, is damnation and destruction to families, children and a testimony that God cannot save a fallen spouse, or restore their marriage/family relationships. He can. He does. He will.

Speaking to believers, the writer of Hebrews says we must not sin willfully after accepting Christ.

Those who think it is okay... are being deceived. Be not deceived (to christians) God is not mocked... what a man soweth that shall he also reap... he who sows to the flesh shall reap corruption... et al.

I know you know this. Christians MUST repent. Otherwise they put Christ to an open shame. That is NOT okay with God.

Only condition for divorce in scripture, even under the new covenant is outright adultery by an unrepentant spouse. Even then, Jesus says it is allowed only because of the hardened heart of the unforgiving spouse.

Telling folks that is okay... will get those who teach the unlearned, into greater condemnation. Teachers will receive the greater condemnation. Repentance brings cleansing. Pesistence in sin will get folks the Ananias and Saphira treatment.. if scripture is true.

I believe it is.

[metmom]

Even if Jesus did give mere mortal, fallible men the power to retain or forgive someone's sin, it never says that's the ONLY way it can be done.

THAT claim is purely an assumption.

And it works very well for keeping the people in line by hanging their eternal fate over their heads by claiming that the church has the power to send them to hell or not.

Sounds like blackmail to me.

OTOH, Jesus offers forgiveness and salvation freely to all who come to Him and simply ask.

Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

[af_vet_1981]

Read the whole passage. It is not about which commandments, it is about commitment to Jesus Christ:

The words of Jesus clearly show that He gave more than just the two commandments you cited, albeit all the others can be encompassed by those two great commandments. One cannot ignore His words and claim the two.

Look again a verse 26. That establishes salvation through Grade and Grace alone. If you miss keeping one commandment, you miss them all.

While salvation is by grace, and it is the gift of God, that verse refers back to these words, which He also taught in other passages.

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew, Catholic chapter nineteen, Protestant verse twenty one,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[af_vet_1981]

The term graven image means idol and was addressed to prohibit them from being worshipped or used for that purpose.

There are two Hebrew words in the text; פֶּ֫סֶל (graven image) does refer to a false deity, and תְּמוּנָה (likeness) which likewise would refer specifically to false deities. The Catholics do not use graven images or likenesses in the worship of false deities, but I understand that some people are confused by the Catholic custom of images and pictures of the Holy Family and the Saints; Moslems are particularly confused and incensed by this.

[ealgeone]

I take it you did not read Acts 2 and/or 3.

[ealgeone]

Catholics don't use graven images or idols???? Guess that's why they've amended the Ten Commandments in the ccc and other places regarding idols and bowing before them. See Salvations post where she listed the Catholic version of the Ten Commandments.

. If Elsie is following this thread perhaps the images of Catholics bowing before Mary could be posted.

[MHGinTN]

The image will not change a double-mind. The double-mind excuses itself because pride of works rules the heart of the double-minded.

[MHGinTN]

The worshipful posture and expressions are ALWAYS denied as worshipping, where mariology statuary altars are pictured.

[SubMareener]

Please keep as many commandments as you can. This is not a salvation issue. As long as you believe in you heart that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, and have proclaimed this with your mouth, you will be saved. Everything else determines your reward in Heaven, and your place in the Kingdom to Come.

[ealgeone]

Have you sold all you have and given it to the poor??

[af_vet_1981]

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Luke, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verses forty three to forty nine
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

[ealgeone]

I guess your answer is no you haven't sold all you have and given to the poor??

[af_vet_1981]

If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

John, Catholic chapter fourteen, Protestant verses fifteen to twenty five,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

[af_vet_1981]

Catholics don't use graven images or idols????

Catholics do not worship false deities. I thought you had conceded the point that in order for פֶּ֫סֶל (graven image) and תְּמוּנָה (likeness) to violate the commandment they had to portray a false deity. Otherwise, a representation (תְּמוּנָה) of any kind is forbidden, any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

[ealgeone]

Whoa, let’s back up a bit. I’m waiting for your answer regarding post 132.

[af_vet_1981]

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

First Timothy, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verses three to nineteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

[MHGinTN]

Some of those verses without the Catholiciism twist:

1 Tim 6:17 Tell those who are rich in this age not to be arrogant and not to place their confidence in anything as uncertain as riches. Instead, let them place their confidence in God, who lavishly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 They are to do good, to be rich in good actions, to be generous, and to share. 19 By doing this they store up a treasure for themselves that is a good foundation for the future, so that they can keep their hold on the life that is real.

Verse nineteen shows the advice to Timothy was aimed at born from above wealthy folks ... 'may keep their hold'

[af_vet_1981]

Some of those verses without the Catholiciism twist:

I have never heard the King James Version of the Bible called Catholic before; interesting perspective.

[af_vet_1981]

Is the translation you posted the International Standard Version (The contents of this site, the ISV Triglyph device, and the trademarks International Standard Version® and ISV® are Copyright © 1996-forever by The ISV Foundation. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED INTERNATIONALLY. Any other trademark identified by ® is the property of its respective holder. ?

[Mark17]

The minute you make grace depend on something you do, you negate, or nullify, grace.

It is no longer grace. Grace is something you don't earn or deserve, for any reason, ever.

You are correct MM. Why is this so difficult to understand? But then again, I didn't understand it either, when I belonged to a works based religion. I understand it perfectly now. If others don't get it, that's on them. 😎☝️️