Vatican Squelches Rumors of New Rules on Mass Facing East

Crux ^ | 7/11/16 | Ines San Martin

[marshmallow]

Although the pope's top official for liturgy recently suggested that priests should adopt the ad orientem posture for celebrating Mass beginning in Advent, meaning facing the east, a Vatican spokesman on Monday said that instructions recommending facing the people are not going to change.

ROME- In the wake of recent comments by its chief liturgist recommending that priests celebrate Mass ad orientem, meaning facing east with their backs to the people, beginning in Advent, the Vatican released a statement on Monday saying no new rules along those lines are in the works.

A Vatican spokesman also rejected the vocabulary of a “reform of the reform” in liturgical practice, saying that phrase is “at times the source of misunderstandings.”

Father Federico Lombardi said the decision to release a statement clarifying comments made by Cardinal Robert Sarah, of Guinea, came after the prelate met with Pope Francis on Saturday.

“Cardinal Sarah has always been rightly concerned about the dignity of the celebration of the Mass, in order to adequately express an attitude of respect and adoration of the Eucharistic mystery,” Lombardi said.

The papal spokesman added that some of Sarah’s expressions had been misinterpreted by the press, as a signal that changes in liturgical norms were imminent.

“It is very important that we return as soon as possible to a common orientation, of priests and the faithful turned together in the same direction - eastwards, or at least towards the apse - to the Lord who comes,” Sarah had said July 5, opening a conference in London called Sacra Liturgia.

Although his comments were phrased as suggestions and not an edict, Sarah’s desire for a return to the ad orientem posture nevertheless generated wide reaction and debate, in large part because the posture is widely associated with the older Latin Mass in.....

[aMorePerfectUnion]

So you are saying there is real evidence to back up my exatence. I see.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Open threads are not Catholic nor Protestant. They are discussion threads.

[7MMmag]

>>>> You’re making my point. <<<<

You have no point, other than continuing to prove that it is yourself who is acting childish.

>>>> Catholics not wanted in the Religious forum. That’s why this is allowed to go on. <<<<

I do think you have things quite backwards. It's more like some Catholics are perpetually miffed over there being any expression of disagreement with their own views allowed, at all.

>>>> Disparaging? Didn’t you read the moderator comments? It’s open season. <<<<

There must be a two-way street -- not the statements, positions, and beliefs (no matter how fervently held) of only "one side" or another protected from all criticism and challenge. If you cannot accept and abide by the rules of the forum, if the rules themselves come across to you as too binding, then please stay out of the "religion" forum. At least do not blame the religion forum moderator -- that person should instead be given credit for having strove for even-handedness.

>>>> How about you run down to your local Catholic church and harass them there. I’m sure you could get your “protestant kicks” doing that. <<<<

In comment after comment on this forum, the bitterness (and childishness) pours out from you. If I was to "get kicks" doing as you suggested, if it were to compare with the snarling that "protestants" are frequently subjected to -- on direct personal level -- from Catholics here on FR, I'd have to set up tents on the lawn of every Catholic Church in the state, and be in all of them 24/7 so that at periodic juncture, I could jut out the lip, and spew out childish insult, all the while whining that I was "sick".

As it is, I've never spoken harshly to anyone in a church parking lot of any persuasion.

This forum is not a church, but I guess, going by your reaction, I must have hit upon something when I mentioned there be on this forum, among Roman Catholics most acutely, a perennial discussion of how best to worship one's own worship.

[piusv]

Agreed.

[Lil Flower]

I’m saying everything that happens, and everything you and I do, is not in the Bible.

But you already knew that.

[Lil Flower]

I’m aware.

[Lil Flower]

***How about take the Catholic-centric ceaseless discussions (frequently over how to best worship their own worship) — to some forum other than FR?

There are plenty more than just yourself who are “beyond sick of it”...

The whole deal has run off hundreds, if not thousands of people. One can get their Catholic kicks, elsewhere, I’m sure.***

You’re saying that Catholics posts too many threads about things related to Catholics and that maybe we should go somewhere else and post, or, get our “Catholic” kicks as you say.

The fact that I responded to that makes me childish. Ok.

[7MMmag]

>>>> The fact that I responded to that makes me childish. Ok. <<<<

It is what you have said (and how you have said it) while ignoring everything that didn't fit in the "Catholics are being picked upon" meme which is the childishness I was speaking towards. That, and the childishness of your posting insulting comments such as

How about you run down to your local Catholic church and harass them there

But yes, this whole scene has over the years, driven off many people from FR.

Let's not blame that all on "protestants", when if there was not non-stop promotion of, and discussion of Catholic-centric issues here on FR, sort of a non-stop barrage of "in your face" with it, there would not have been some amount of blow-back. Many, or perhaps most of those issues could be better (and more peaceably?) discussed on forums elsewhere on the internet, rather than here at FR. Since they have not been, then gird ye' your loins for public discourse. Or -- stay out of the "religion" forum, as I suggested to you.

The perpetual whining, and now again the complaining about forum administration, is pathetic.

What the perpetual whining about the blow-back appears to me to be is, that there are more than a few who seeking a "safe space" here on FR to discuss Catholic (only!) issues, yet have that discussion take place smack dab in the middle of everything else, at the same time.

It's like there's an ongoing take-over attempt to subvert (and take control) of the forum, as much as can be accomplished. Those ends were not the primary aims and intents of this forum at it's inception, although there is a place for "Catholic' concerns also, among those same aims and intents.

Nonetheless, the whole whiny, pathetic, "FR is unfair to us Catholics" meme reminds me a great deal of the Professor Melissa Click's of this world;

and the

Rise of The Pantywaist Fascists: Mizzou Police Want 'Hateful or Hurtful Speech' Reported

When "administration" does not immediately accede to demands for "safe space", free from any comments not to some 'Catholics' own personal liking, and that space be reserved right smack-dab in the middle of town square, then administration (the forum moderators) are demonized, right along with those who would dare to disagree with a this, or that, that some 'Catholic' freeper may choose to say...on the religion forum.

So grow up, or go away, Lil' Flower. My, my, aren't you a special one of those! Don't come here "fighting", posting criticisms of your own, and insulting insinuations too, while moaning and complaining about unfair it all is.

[Lil Flower]

I would try and understand all that, whatever you want to call that you just posted, you can’t be rational with someone who is irrational.

All I can get from that is you are doing some serious ranting about a small post. I obviously touched a nerve.

You need to calm down, drink a glass of wine or something.

[7MMmag]

>>>> you can’t be rational with someone who is irrational. <<<<

Since you refuse to be rational about this yourself (and blame the forum moderators, etc.) when the evidence is overwhelming that FR management has been more than accommodating to 'Catholics' and their concerns, then yes, you are not being altogether "rational", nearly as I can determine...

[Lil Flower]

***and blame the forum moderators, etc***

No I blame Protestants who have nothing better to do than to go around picking specks out of other people’s eyes when they have logs in their own.
I don’t understand why non-Catholics care about which way our Priest faces during some parts of our Mass. But the thing is y’all don’t care, you just get off on stopping by the threads to make your same, tired insults.

It shows much more about your character and the character of others than you obviously realize.

Goodbye.

[7MMmag]

>>>> No I blame Protestants who have nothing better to do than to go around picking specks out of other people’s eyes when they have logs in their own. <<<<

Here, you are projecting, again.

>>>> I don’t understand why non-Catholics care about which way our Priest faces during some parts of our Mass. But the thing is y’all don’t care, you just get off on stopping by the threads to make your same, tired insults. <<<<

I said nothing specifically about "which way priests stand". However, regardless of claims made by some that the orientation of church building layout, and the directions persons face toward during church gatherings is from "apostolic" times, the evidence is lacking that it comes straight from there, the preponderance of evidence being that it is a custom that arose, and was common enough beginning a couple of centuries later than when the apostles who were hand-picked by Christ himself were still alive, and so were the elders -- the leaders.

>>>> It shows much more about your character and the character of others than you obviously realize. <<<<

Your own contributions to these threads typically have been to drop in and complain about "protestants", and to that you have now added complaint about FR management. Where oh, where is the "character" in that?

You come out swinging at all those not 'Catholic' -- if they be among any who venture comment disagreeable to yourself, and want to talk about specks in people's eyes too, at the same time???

Get real. No, forget that, GET LOST.

[Iscool]

Matthew 24:27 (Douay-Rheims) For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be.

This would be a return to something done in Christian Churches before Mohammad's grandfather had herded a single goat (or whatever he did).

Priest and faithful petitioning and praying together to God in the same direction from which Our Lord promised he would come again.

You got that wrong...Perhaps you don't see what you are reading...

It is not telling you Jesus will come from the east any more than it says lightning comes from the east...

It says when lightning is in the east it is seen in the west at the same time...This is a picture of when Jesus shows up where he will be seen by all at the same time...

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

[Iscool]

No, facing east toward the sunrise — because that’s when the Resurrection supposedly happened.

Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

God doesn't like this sun rise worshiping stuff much...