Posted on 07/11/2016 4:49:11 PM PDT by marshmallow
Although the pope's top official for liturgy recently suggested that priests should adopt the ad orientem posture for celebrating Mass beginning in Advent, meaning facing the east, a Vatican spokesman on Monday said that instructions recommending facing the people are not going to change.
ROME- In the wake of recent comments by its chief liturgist recommending that priests celebrate Mass ad orientem, meaning facing east with their backs to the people, beginning in Advent, the Vatican released a statement on Monday saying no new rules along those lines are in the works.
A Vatican spokesman also rejected the vocabulary of a “reform of the reform” in liturgical practice, saying that phrase is “at times the source of misunderstandings.”
Father Federico Lombardi said the decision to release a statement clarifying comments made by Cardinal Robert Sarah, of Guinea, came after the prelate met with Pope Francis on Saturday.
“Cardinal Sarah has always been rightly concerned about the dignity of the celebration of the Mass, in order to adequately express an attitude of respect and adoration of the Eucharistic mystery,” Lombardi said.
The papal spokesman added that some of Sarah’s expressions had been misinterpreted by the press, as a signal that changes in liturgical norms were imminent.
“It is very important that we return as soon as possible to a common orientation, of priests and the faithful turned together in the same direction - eastwards, or at least towards the apse - to the Lord who comes,” Sarah had said July 5, opening a conference in London called Sacra Liturgia.
Although his comments were phrased as suggestions and not an edict, Sarah’s desire for a return to the ad orientem posture nevertheless generated wide reaction and debate, in large part because the posture is widely associated with the older Latin Mass in.....
(Excerpt) Read more at cruxnow.com ...
No one barges into an open thread. That is the point.
Simply because a door is open, doesn't mean one ought to walk through it.
That is a silly comment. There are safe zone threads, called "caucus" threads where you can post without interruption or dissent. Any open thread is posting in the town square for discussion. Not everyone will agree with you. Open threads are for discussion.
From the Religion Moderator's home page:
Open threads are in a town square format.Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected
Posters may argue for or against beliefs, deities, religious authorities, etc. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule. “Open” RF debate is often contentious.
It requires thick skin. A poster must be able to make his points while standing his ground, suffering adverse remarks about his beliefs - or letting them roll off his back. Members of religions which are as much culture as belief sometimes take religious debate personally. If you keep getting your feelings hurt because other posters ridicule or disapprove or hate what you hold dear, then you are too thin-skinned to be involved in “open” RF debate. You should IGNORE “open” RF threads altogether and instead post to RF threads labeled “prayer” “devotional” “caucus” or “ecumenical.”
Quite appropriate, I thought. Who walks through a door simply because they can, when ignorant of what's behind it?
Opposite.
Conversation is taking place out loud, in the public square. Not behind a closed door.
All of us can hear it all and decide if we'd like to participate in the conversation.
That might depend on whether you actually know something about the subject under discussion, no?
Simply because people are talking doesn't mean you're obliged to weigh in like the bore in the bar who's an expert on everything.
I also pointed out, facing East isn't Biblically commanded, nor is an example shown for the church or of an Apostle facing any particular direction during a church service.
As such, enjoy one direction, or many, or alternating. You have total freedom in Christ. Enjoy.
The GIRM does NOT recommend facing the people, except in the FAKE, PHONY, FRAUDULENT ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE GIRM.
1) Facing “east”—i.e., liturgical east—is a Christian tradition that goes back as far as any liturgical tradition.
2) Muslims do not face east—they face MECCA.
No, facing east toward the sunrise — because that’s when the Resurrection supposedly happened.
***Why even barge into a thread devoted to Catholic worship? Don’t you have a rapture to catch, or something?***
Why? Because then she couldn’t play with her pompous, theological sling shot.
***No Biblical record of any Apostle or church service facing east. As such, it is just personal preference.***
There’s no Biblical record of you being born either and yet, here you are.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, make all Catholic threads a caucus thread. I’m passed sick of this.
***Posters may argue for or against beliefs, deities, religious authorities, etc. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule. “Open” RF debate is often contentious.***
Oh well, now that I know this, time to hit those Protestant threads!
Oh wait, I’m not childish or disrespectful like the Protestants and their moderators.
Who told you that?
And what's the deal with disparaging the forum moderators?
How about take the Catholic-centric ceaseless discussions (frequently over how to best worship their own worship) -- to some forum other than FR?
There are plenty more than just yourself who are "beyond sick of it"...
The whole deal has run off hundreds, if not thousands of people. One can get their Catholic kicks, elsewhere, I'm sure.
I found a handy online calculator: http://www.qibla.com.br/
The map on the right is already positioned at ground zero. Find yourself on the map on the left. Add 180° (modulo 360°) to the Destination Direction. That's where your head should be pointing in order to properly orient your ass.
In my case, I should be praying at an initial heading of about 235°. My gas needs to cover a little over 10,000 kilometers.
You’re making my point. Catholics not wanted in the Religious forum. That’s why this is allowed to go on.
How about you run down to your local Catholic church and harass them there. I’m sure you could get your “protestant kicks” doing that.
Disparaging? Didn’t you read the moderator comments? It’s open season.
Geography is hard.
A Vatican spokesman also rejected the vocabulary of a “reform of the reform” in liturgical practice, saying that phrase is “at times the source of misunderstandings.” Father Federico Lombardi said the decision to release a statement clarifying comments made by Cardinal Robert Sarah, of Guinea, came after the prelate met with Pope Francis on Saturday....
Lombardi’s rejection of the phrase “reform of the reform” is also noteworthy in light of Sarah’s comments in early July. In his remarks, Sarah had said that during a private audience with the pope last April, Francis had asked him to study “the question of a reform of a reform” to see how to enrich the twofold use of the Roman rite - the “ordinary form,” meaning the post-Vatican II liturgy in the vernacular languages, and the “extraordinary form,” or the pre-Vatican II Latin Mass....
Sarah was appointed to the Vatican’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by Francis in November 2014.
Interesting that Francis was the one who asked Sarah to look into these things only to turn around and tell him to STFU. It is clear that Francis has made it clear to Sarah that he needs to toe the company line or he may not remain on the "Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments". Lots of deceit here. Lots of deceit.
Francis is playing games with Sarah. Seeing Sarah as a potential maverick and not one easily brought into line, he no doubt tossed him the "reform of the reform" bone in the hope of keeping him entertained while the serious business of "making a mess" was occurring elsewhere. Unfortunately, Sarah took it and ran to places never anticipated so he had to be quickly slapped down.
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