The Gospel Part 5: Reconciling Faith And Works

Unsealed.org ^ | 5/19/16 | Gary

[amessenger4god]

Faith vs. works.  Christians have debated this topic for two thousand years and still do.  At the heart of the debate you have two (seemingly) opposing sides:

Team Faith says works are not required for salvation.  Salvation is received by grace through faith alone (John 6:28-29, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5, Romans 11:6, Galatians 2:21).  They believe that making works a requirement for salvation ignores the very message of the Gospel that Jesus died for our sins and rose again (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), which the Apostle Paul calls "of first importance."  This is Christianity 101.  If Jesus died for your sins as a substitutionary sacrifice how can sin or lack of works now separate the Believer from God since our sins were the very reason He died?  Isn't the point of the Cross that under the law works were a requirement for salvation and because we couldn't keep the law perfectly (James 2:10) Jesus did it for us?

Team Works doesn't deny that faith is necessary for salvation, but adds performing good works and/or avoiding sin enough as necessary components of salvation.  The works-righteousness side relies heavily on James 2:14-24 and Philippians 2:12, which both prima facie seem to indicate the opposite of such often referenced sola fide verses as Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 4:5.  This is the position taken by Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox theologians, as well as some Protestants such as N.T. Wright.

While there are essentially two sides to the debate, there are actually three ways to explain the relationship between faith and works, because Team Faith can be further split into two categories: first, those who think that faith and salvation have no relationship to works and thus grace is a license to sin (these are called antinomians: anti = against and nomian = law, so "against law").  Second, those who believe we are saved by faith alone, but the type of faith that saves is a faith that consequentially results in obedience to God and thus good works.  The second view differentiates between a professed faith and a penitent faith.  To summarize the three views:

1. Faith + works = salvation.  This is Team Works and is the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church per the sixth session of the Council of Trent (1547).  Eastern Orthodox and some Protestant churches also subscribe to this view.  It uses James 2:14-24 as the chief proof text.

2. Faith = salvation - works.  This is one of the two camps in Team Faith.  Unfortunately for this team, it is condemned at least twice in the Bible (Romans 6:1-2, Jude 1:4), and universally by the early Church.  The Bible repeatedly describes the Believer's life as characterized by love and good deeds - avoidance of sin and works stemming from faith.  For this reason antinomianism is not compatible with God's Word.  There are virtually no denominations or churches that officially subscribe to this view, although there are a large and growing number of churches and professing Christians who in practice are antinomians because they justify things that the Bible clearly defines as sin (e.g. homosexuality, adultery, abortion, obscenity, etc).

3. Faith = salvation + works.  This is the position held by a large majority of Protestant groups including Evangelicals, Anglicans, Pentecostals, and Lutherans.  It is also the official position of most Protestant denominations even if many Protestants themselves may reject the view in favor of either view #1 or view #2.  In my understanding this is also the view espoused in the Bible and in the early Church, which over centuries was diluted until Luther and Melanchthon attempted to restore the doctrine to the Church.  Galatians 2:11-3:26, Romans 3:21-5:2, and Ephesians 2:8-9 are proof texts.

For argument's sake let's all agree that view #2 is not biblical and is in fact heresy (as evidenced by many of the same scriptures that view #1 emphasizes).  We are left with #1 and #3.  Here are the reasons why I believe #3 is the biblical view:

1. It is the only view that can reconcile all scriptures.  View #1 can only sustain itself by ignoring and de-emphasizing literally dozens and dozens of scriptures that indicate salvation is wrought by faith in or belief in Jesus.  Some of the passages ignored include long discourses on faith apart from works such as the aforementioned Galatians 2:11-3:26 and Romans 3:21-5:2.  View #3 can actually reconcile James 2:14-24 prima facie, whereas view #1 cannot reconcile the Galatians, Romans, and Ephesians passages prima facie.  View #3 can also reconcile Philippians 2:12, because the Greek κατεργάζεσθε means "work out" (your salvation), not "work for" (your salvation).

2. It is the only view that preserves the simple Gospel message.  In 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 the Gospel is defined simply as Jesus dying for our sins, being buried, and rising again.  Arguing that not sinning or avoiding sin enough is how one obtains eternal life makes the Gospel pointless since that is the very reason Christ died (Galatians 2:21).  View #1 proponents attempt in a variety of ways to explain how we are saved by God's grace yet works are also necessary, but as the Apostle Paul explains, any mixture of grace and works defeats the very meaning of grace in the first place (Romans 11:6).  Paul appears to demonstrate the absurd dichotomy between faith and works in Galatians 3:1-6.  You can't have it both ways.  There is no compromise.  You can't simultaneously maintain that Jesus paid the price for your sins and yet you still have to pay.

3. It is the only view that correctly understands and defines grace.  The Bible is crystal clear that we are saved by God's grace which came through Christ's atoning sacrifice and resurrection.  Even the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches this.  Yet, because of the absurdity of saying we are saved by grace and works, some theologians have changed the basic, general understanding of what the word grace means.  In a dictionary or in common conversation grace simply means "unmerited favor" or "undeserved kindness."  Yet to the works-righteousness theologian they tag "sanctifying" onto "grace" to define it as something else entirely: fuel in your spiritual tank to keep you going.

4. Sola fide has more supporting scriptures.  I don't offer this as proof because every verse must be accounted for, but for argument's sake, even if every verse that indicated works were necessary and every verse that indicated faith was necessary could not be reconciled, sola fide would still have more supporting verses.

There are 24 verses that seem to indicate the necessity of works:

James 2:14
James 2:20
James 2:24
James 2:26
Revelation 2:23
Revelation 3:2
Matthew 3:10 (good fruit necessary)
Matthew 6:15
Matthew 13:41 (all who do evil)
Luke 3:9 (good fruit necessary)
Philippians 2:12
Hebrews 10:26 (any sin after conversion; see Hebrews 10:39)
Revelation 20:12 (judged according to deeds)
Revelation 20:13 (judged according to deeds)
1 John 2:4
1 John 2:5
1 John 3:6 (no one who continues to sin)
1 John 3:7
1 John 3:8
1 John 3:9 (no one who continues to sin)
1 John 3:15
1 John 4:20
1 John 5:18 (no one who continues to sin)
3 John 1:11

Yet there are 88 verses that indicate the exclusive necessity of grace, faith, or belief (x represents where condemnation is actually tied to unbelief rather than bad deeds):

John 6:29
Romans 3:20
Romans 3:28
Romans 4:2
Romans 4:6
Romans 9:32 X
Romans 11:6
Galatians 2:16 X
Galatians 3:2
Galatians 3:5
Galatians 3:10 X
Ephesians 2:9
Matthew 9:2
Mark 2:5
Luke 5:20
Luke 7:50
Acts 15:9
Acts 20:21
Acts 26:18
Romans 1:17
Romans 3:22
Romans 3:25
Romans 3:26
Romans 3:27
Romans 3:30
Romans 4:5
Romans 4:9
Romans 4:11
Romans 4:13
Romans 4:14
Romans 4:16
Romans 5:1
Romans 5:2
Romans 9:30
Romans 10:10
Romans 11:20
Galatians 3:8
Galatians 2:21
Galatians 3:11 X
Galatians 3:14
Galatians 3:22
Galatians 3:24
Galatians 3:26
Galatians 5:6
Ephesians 2:8
Ephesians 3:12
Ephesians 3:17
Philippians 3:9
2 Timothy 3:15
Hebrews 10:39 X
1 Peter 1:9
Luke 8:12 X
John 1:12
John 3:15
John 3:16
John 3:18 X
John 3:36 X
John 5:24
John 6:29
John 6:40
John 6:47
John 8:24 X
John 11:25
John 11:26
John 20:31
Acts 10:43
Acts 11:17
Acts 13:39 X
Acts 15:11
Acts 16:31
Romans 1:16
Romans 4:3
Romans 4:24
Romans 9:33
Romans 10:4
Romans 10:9
Romans 10:11
1 Corinthians 1:21
1 Corinthians 15:2 X
Ephesians 1:13
2 Thessalonians 2:12 X
2 Thessalonians 2:13
1 Timothy 1:16
Hebrews 4:3 X
James 2:23
1 John 5:1
1 John 5:5
1 John 5:13
Hebrews 3:19 X

And since there are 88 verses that indicate grace, faith, or belief are exclusively necessary for salvation, and 0 verses indicating the necessity of works apart from faith, that tells me the biblical equation cannot be faith + works = salvation.

Take a look at this very quick video explanation of how faith and works relate.

[Elsie]

Sharing racial attributes does not translate into either equality of character nor necessarily into sanction of a shared practice, and not being a respecter of persons refers to not treating men based on their race/color/nationality - as the LDS did regarding blacks - versus faith and character.

Did someone mention BLACKS?

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"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

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Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

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1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

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We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

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Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

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When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

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When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

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Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 

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[Elsie]

Conversely, contradicting the Scriptures (and itself) it even professed to be of God was and is a sign of a false church.

Did SOMEONE say CONTRADICTING??

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Trinity:

 

found in the Book of MORMON        -----------   rejected in the Doctrines and Covenants 

Book of Mormon: Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29) ...and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44) ...doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21) ...praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7) ...power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son--And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, (Mosiah 15:3-5) ...of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2:8) "Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15) "And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one ; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one ." (3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36)

Doctrine and Covenants: According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest. (Section 121:32) And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God. And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them--Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths--then shall it be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (Section 132:18-20) Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. (Section 132:37)

 

 

[Elsie]

Did SOMEONE say CONTRADICTING??

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Why; Yes!

Yes they did!

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What's for dinner?

 

D&C 49:18-19  18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; 19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

D&C 89:12-13  12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; 13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

 

 

 

It must be tough; being a Mormon.   Having to face Scripture that state two oppossing ideas and somehow managing to believe BOTH of them!  It's no WONDER that Utah leads in Prozac usage!

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Proverbs 31:10-31      on steroids!!!

 

How to Identify the Perfect LDS Woman, as Identified by Focus Groups in Written Surveys and Oral Discussion    http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1220&context=etd

 

 

Cultural Artifacts

Children are active in the Church

Children's artwork/trophies

Drive minivan or suburban (or BMW=Big Mormon Wagon)

Food storage

Piano

Pictures of Christ

Pictures of married daughters

Pictures of temple

Proclamation on the Family

Wooden plaques with sayings like “Love Begins at Home,” “Return With Honor,” or “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Wreath on the front door that matches everyone else's because they made them in Relief Society

 

Family

Cares for home and family/has lots of kids

Children excel

Children have their jobs/chores done

Children don’t fight

Children get good grades

Confides in husband if she's sad or angry

Makes sure family reads scriptures

Drives kids around (soccer mom)

Family does everything together

Family eats dinner together

Good mother

Good wife

Helps kids with homework

Holds Family Home Evening

Home is clean but cluttered, smells like cookies or pie

Home is somewhere you want to be—feels safe, comfortable

Laundry done and folded

Lives close to extended family

 

Mother

Never yells at her children

Stay-at-home Mom

Super Mom

Throws perfect kids parties

Sings in the car

Supports husband

Well-mannered children

 

Homemaking Skills

Cans

Cleans/clean house

Cooks fabulous meals

Crochets

Cross-stitches

Decorates with homemade things

Gardens—grows lots of zucchini to share with neighbors

Knits things for humanitarian service

Makes bread

Makes breakfast/dinner

Makes cookies

Makes crafts

Makes homemade doilies

Makes jam

Quilts/ties quilts

Scrapbooks

Sews

Tole paints

Uses a tablecloth

 

Personality Traits

Bubbly

Cheerful

Compassionate

Confident

Considerate

Courageous

Creative

Dignified

Friendly

Genuine—you can tell that she really cares

Gracious

Happy

Kind

Leader

Optimistic

Organized

Patient

Proper

Reliable

Resourceful

Self-confident

Smart/educated

Trustworthy

 

Physical Characteristics

Doesn’t overeat

Dresses modestly

Exercises (e.g. speed walks around the neighborhood while pushing a stroller)

Good-looking/beautiful

Mormon mom haircut (from having 6 kids and not wanting any of them to pull it)

Well-groomed

Random Items

Attends book club

Doesn’t compete

Doesn’t swear

Explores her talents and takes her own lessons in between running her kids around

Good friend

Good neighbor

Manages money well

Never loses temper

No such thing

Plays musical instrument (esp. piano)

PTA president

Sings

Well-rounded

 

Spiritual Characteristics

Admits mistakes/doesn't have to be perfect

At peace with self

Balanced life

Charity

Christlike

Doesn't pretend to be perfect

Enduring/doesn’t complain

Forgiving

Good example

Has a testimony and shares it

Has faith

Has the heart of a child

Has a light/happy glow

Humble

Integrity

Knowledge of the gospel

Knows she is a child of God

Learns from mistakes

Loves the Lord

Loving

Makes you feel loved

Meek

Not judgmental/accepts others

Peacemaker

Sacrifices

Selfless

Spiritual

Tries to improve

Understands her role (equal with priesthood)

Virtuous/high values

Religiously Motivated Actions

Attends all church meetings

Attends temple

Does genealogy

Follows spiritual promptings

Keeps commandments/covenants

Lives her religion

Magnifies callings

Prays

Reads scriptures, and gets up early to do so

Serves others

Visiting teaching

Visits neighbors and takes them casseroles

 

[Elsie]

Your arrogance in calling me a fool has really taken away any desire to continue conversing with you…

Don't worry Dan.

He has no 'desire' to try and defend the Mormon History, Quotes and Scripture I post on FR either.

[MHGinTN]

If all Americans would just convert to his ISM then all these objectionable revelations about the ISM would go away ... and Mormons could enjoy the ride toward their destiny.

[CTrent1564]

I agree most people don’t know the meaning of the word “orthodox”. However, Mormons do know enough orthodox Trinitarian doctrine to send their young people out to state it in a way that sounds orthodox, even though it is not. Unfortunately, people fall for it.

[Elsie]

So true!

That Mormon Milk will turn sour if they don’t get to eat the meat of the Gospel.