Posted on 05/19/2016 5:25:46 PM PDT by amessenger4god
President Snow [at one time the supposed prophet of the Mormon cult] later recalled, “the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me. …“As man now is, God once was:
“As God now is, man may be.”Feeling that he had received “a sacred communication” that he should guard carefully, Lorenzo Snow did not teach the doctrine publicly until he knew that the Prophet Joseph Smith had taught it.
Blasphemy is at the heart of Mormonism, as the demonic little couplet illustrates.
Here is what Lorenzo's sister [Eliza Snow] testified to regarding the little blasphemous denigration of GOD:
In her biography of her brother, Eliza R. Snow explains the circumstances which led Lorenzo Snow to pen the famous couplet: “Being present at a ‘Blessing Meeting,’ in the Temple, previous to his baptism into the Church; after listening to several patriarchal blessings pronounced upon the heads of different individuals with whose history he was acquainted, and of whom he knew the Patriarch was entirely ignorant; he was struck with astonishment to hear the peculiarities of those persons positively and plainly referred to in their blessings. And, as he afterwards expressed, he was convinced that an influence, superior to human prescience, dictated the words of the one who officiated. [https://www.lds.org/ensign/1982/02/i-have-a-question?lang=eng]
I doubt that ST is going to disagree with this statement.
The bothersome reply
"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."
The reporter wrote, "On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain." That's an unfortunate conclusion. Of course I wasn't at the interview and neither were you but I'll bet the reporter mistook careful thoughtfulness for uncertainty. This doctrine is indeed deep territory and not something that is taught outside the LDS Church.
An earlier and similar interview
The San Francisco Chronicle, published an interview with President Hinckley in April of 1997. The reporter asked, "There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormon's believe that God was once a man?" President Hinckley responded, "I wouldn't say that. There is a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'"
He then said, "Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about." The reporter pounced on this. "So you're saying that the church is still struggling to understand this? " President Hinckley responded, "Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly."
President Hinckley's response
President Hinckley said in October 1997 General Conference: "I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that's to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine.
"I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church." And there lies the whole point of my post today. Some members did indeed become a little concerned by the exchanges they read in the press reports of those interviews.
Does the Church still teach this?
I know this is old news but it still bothers some people when they discover the anti-Mormon attacks floating around on the Internet. President Hinckley was right. We really don't know much about how our Heavenly Father became a God. The idea that he passed through a mortal probationary state like you and me is certainly not documented in any scripture of which I know.
However, it is still taught. In the Gospel Principles manual in the chapter on exaltation we read, "Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)."
Summary and conclusion
I don't know why this should bother anyone. The doctrine is true. Joseph Smith knew a whole lot more about this than I do. President Hinckley also knew a whole lot more about this doctrine than he was willing to share with reporters who did not have the background to understand it. It must have been difficult for President Hinckley to hold back and not teach it in those interviews.
It didn't bother me when I read the interviews back in 1997 and it doesn't bother me today. However, I know it does bother some people. We each have trials of our faith. I have never depended on an intellectual understanding of the gospel in order to accept it and live it. There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith.
There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith.
If you are going to stand on FR's doorstep and ACCUSE folks of something; the JURY would like to see your evidence.
My question still stands, if a Muslim came to your door trying to convince you that Christianity is wrong and wanting to give you a Koran...
Really?
HMMMmmm...
I've noticed...
Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.
1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the awords which Ether had spoken unto him.
2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.
3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul amourned and refused to be bcomforted.
4 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.
5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.
6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.
7 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.
8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.
9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.
10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.
11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.
12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.
13 And it came to pass that Ether did abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.
14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.
15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.
16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.
17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.
18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.
19 But behold, the aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and bSatan had full power over the chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.
20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.
21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.
22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.
23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.
24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.
25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.
26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.
27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.
28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.
29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.
30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.
34 Now the last words which are written by aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15
And yet the BOOK says...
Ether 14:22
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.
Ain't mind reading FUN!
Even AFTER the Collapse; Storm PREPPER?
HMMMmmm...
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng
Been looking in a mirror have you?
You spittle, “ I would love to have at least one civil conversation with someone on this forum… but I doubt it will ever happen. “ There are many non-Christians who will stroke your cultic mind enough. But you are a lost cult follower of a man who was a serial adulterer, a false prophet, a congenital liar, a thief, and a blasphemer. Don’t expect Christians to embrace your false religion, even as they pray for your doomed soul!
read
see post #101 ... that shines more light on the Momron cult blasphemy than you apologists can stand, thus the effort to divert attention. Do you REALLY believe The God of Creation was once a man and earned exaltation into godhood? If you have a ‘temple recommend’, you do. ‘nuff said
What shallow, logically fallacious reasoning! Sharing racial attributes does not translate into either equality of character nor necessarily into sanction of a shared practice, and not being a respecter of persons refers to not treating men based on their race/color/nationality - as the LDS did regarding blacks - versus faith and character. Muhammad was also a man and polygamist, but which does not justify his manner of polygamy and doctrine any more than it does Smith's based on a basic shared aspect with Abraham. Absurd.
Or is it your conclusion that God can command a prophet to have more than one wife? Or any man for that matter…
God could allow this and did, but why do you continue to persist in arguing as if I argued contrary to what i clearly denied, "as i nowhere called or argued that Smith was carnal because he was a polygamist. His carnality is abundantly evidenced besides his manner of polygamy, while God always was God, and is not a product of eternal progression, with multiple wives."
Why the little digs? It’s a sign of weakness…seriously… “Elitist Smith” does that make you feel better or something?
It is not some little dig, but a rebuke of your foundational argument, that Smith was a prophet of God, yet who asserts that all the churches were wrong and all their creeds were an abomination to God, and Smith was the thus the elitist restoratationist, which necessitated a new revelation and papal-like assertions. The distinctive similarities of errors to Rome do not stop there.
I would love to have at least one civil conversation with someone on this forum… but I doubt it will ever happen.
When you argue for a elitist church whose words are as Scripture but which fundamentally contradicted it, then you are the one being as arrogant as many RCs here. And as the owner himself has stated that Joe Smith was a false prophet and his book is false gospel does not want it taught on FR as gospel, then you can call him arrogant as well.
I have no doubt that Joseph contradicted the meaning you project on scripture.
Then you must demonstrate how it is a projection, verses what Scripture actually teaches.
In everything, God dictates His will to man. God will never accept the will of man given to God. The books of the Bible were mainly written by prophets under the direction of God. However, the list of books that were accepted to be in the Bible was a product of men. There were no prophets present when the Bible was compiled. It is man dictating to God what scripture should be.
Rather, the very texts which the Lord Jesus and NT church invoked were discerned and progressively established as being of God, as was further revelation as complementary and conflative, where wannabe additional "revelations" by wannabe additional "prophets such as Muhammad and Smith stand in clear contradiction to that of the prior revelation they invoke to give authority to their own.
And as a result, you have that absolute chaos that is called “Christianity”.
WRONG. The divisions are not due to different Bibles, except to some degree with Catholicism, but are mainly due to elitist heads, or liberal views of Scripture, while those who hold most strongly to the authority of the Bible as the accurate, wholly inspired word of God are the most unified major religious group in basic beliefs. Groups such the Watchtower society and the LDS have stronger unified due to unScriptural cultic allegiance to leadership, and which have been historically reproved by evangelicals due to commitment to the shared beliefs of the latter.
I don’t know, like grabbing up some poor traveling preacher and throwing him down concrete stairs… or baptizing babies, sprinkling for baptism, ordaining women, thinking you’re already saved, marrying homosexuals, pedophile priests, etc… on and on…
All of which are exposed as contrary to Scripture by evangelicals here, as have the demonic deceptions of Mormonism.
God however, knowing all things, had His prophets compile other books of scripture. This would be a sign of the true Church of God.
Conversely, contradicting the Scriptures (and itself) it even professed to be of God was and is a sign of a false church.
The Book of Mormon together with the Bible and living prophets have perfect continuity.
Which is another bombastic assertion. Dream on.
How is that Jesus had to be anointed by God to do these things? What was He before He was anointed?
What desperation! This was in regards to His commission on earth, in which the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world, and is no way contrary to Christ being the Divine Son of God from eternity, (Mic. 5:2) as God is, (which is His position by nature, but who took upon the nature of Abraham. And who taught that God is a Spirit, (John 4:24) the essential nature of which is not that of flesh bones. (Lk. 24:49)
Your spurious over-use of the words “fallacious and absurd” is both tedious and tiresome.
Because they are entirely repeatedly fitting.
If you expect an answer to a question, then ask it as a question and not as a rhetorical response to a question of mine.
So "Do you really think you can equate Joseph Smith to Abraham? Do you???" is merely rhetorical, while "do you also believe Abraham was a carnal prophet who is in Hell?" is not?
Your arrogance in calling me a fool has really taken away any desire to continue conversing with you…
Such liberal recourse does not change the facts.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.