Posted on 01/17/2016 10:48:30 AM PST by ebb tide
But giving Nostra Aetate such weight, despite it only being a declaration and not a doctrinal text, has led some to see it as having a revolutionary impact, possibly breaking with nearly two millennia of Church teaching and tradition. Documents from the Councils of Florence 1438-1445 and Trent 1545-1563 seem to radically contradict the current teaching, leading some to believe this not to be a development of doctrine but a corruption of it.
(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...
Their theology is very PC but it's not the gospel. I mean are these guys familiar with the words of Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, Luke, Matthew? Apparently not!
The Pope signing more executive orders!😇
The Pope signing more executive orders!😇
I agree. What would the Pope rather have had Jesus do? Maybe decommission the Apostles who preached to the Jews on Pentecost? Was the Holy Spirit wrong to bless that event?
The implications are just weird.
Nostra Aetate is a mess. It’s a document grossly distorted by political shenanigans, skulduggery, and pressure.
The Church will eventually have to repudiate it, as a Pope in the near future will have to repudiate the idiotic Laudato Si and Fast and Furious (the Pope’s new regs on annulments).
Basically a 60 year rewind would be good. I just dont’ think it will happen without divine intervention.
There was no reason to call a Council. And nothing good came out of the Council. There have been a few good developments in the life of the Church since 1958, but the Council and the Novus Ordo are not among them.
"Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner..."
I would say that this new document is at best paradoxical, not revolutionary. Terry Mattingly over at GetReligion seemed to "get it" here when he quotes some rather neglected paragraphs of that same document:, like this one
"Confessing the universal and therefore also exclusive mediation of salvation through Jesus Chris belongs to the core of Christian faith...[T]he Church and Judaism cannot be represented as "two parallel ways to salvation."
Sometimes people portray documents inaccurately by skipping around in the quote department.
Also from the Catholic Church------------Apostolic Tradition: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/apostolic-tradition
Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? Not according to the Bible. While we must guard against merely human tradition, the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.
Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.
The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously, as the following quotations show.
Papias
"Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition" (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21).
Irenaeus
"As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same" (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).
"That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?" (ibid., 3:4:1).
Concerning Jesus: [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition" (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).
Eusebius of Caesarea "At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21). Irenaeus "As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same" (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]). "That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?" (ibid., 3:4:1).
Clement of Alexandria "Well, they preserving the tradition of the blessed doctrine derived directly from the holy apostles, Peter, James, John, and Paul, the sons receiving it from the father (but few were like the fathers), came by God’s will to us also to deposit those ancestral and apostolic seeds. And well I know that they will exult; I do not mean delighted with this tribute, but solely on account of the preservation of the truth, according as they delivered it. For such a sketch as this, will, I think, be agreeable to a soul desirous of preserving from loss the blessed tradition" (Miscellanies 1:1 [A.D. 208]). Origen "Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]). ...
Cyprian of Carthage "[T]he Church is one, and as she is one, cannot be both within and without. For if she is with Novatian, she was not with [Pope] Cornelius. But if she was with Cornelius, who succeeded the bishop Fabian by lawful ordination, and whom, beside the honor of the priesthood the Lord glorified also with martyrdom, Novatian is not in the Church; nor can he be reckoned as a bishop, who, succeeding to no one, and despising the evangelical and apostolic tradition, sprang from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way" (Letters 75:3 [A.D. 253]). Athanasius "Again we write, again keeping to the apostolic traditions, we remind each other when we come together for prayer; and keeping the feast in common, with one mouth we truly give thanks to the Lord. Thus giving thanks unto him, and being followers of the saints, ‘we shall make our praise in the Lord all the day,’ as the psalmist says. So, when we rightly keep the feast, we shall be counted worthy of that joy which is in heaven" (Festal Letters 2:7 [A.D. 330]). "But you are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and frequently accursed envy has wished to unsettle it, but has not been able" (ibid., 29).
Basil the Great "Of the dogmas and messages preserved in the Church, some we possess from written teaching and others we receive from the tradition of the apostles, handed on to us in mystery. In respect to piety, both are of the same force. No one will contradict any of these, no one, at any rate, who is even moderately versed in matters ecclesiastical. Indeed, were we to try to reject unwritten customs as having no great authority, we would unwittingly injure the gospel in its vitals; or rather, we would reduce [Christian] message to a mere term" (The Holy Spirit 27:66 [A.D. 375]). Epiphanius of Salamis "It is needful also to make use of tradition, for not everything can be gotten from sacred Scripture. The holy apostles handed down some things in the scriptures, other things in tradition" (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 61:6 [A.D. 375]). John Chrysostom "[Paul commands,] ‘Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter’ [2 Thess. 2:15]. From this it is clear that they did not hand down everything by letter, but there is much also that was not written. Like that which was written, the unwritten too is worthy of belief. So let us regard the tradition of the Church also as worthy of belief. Is it a tradition? Seek no further" (Homilies on Second Thessalonians [A.D. 402]).
Vincent of Lerins "With great zeal and closest attention, therefore, I frequently inquired of many men, eminent for their holiness and doctrine, how I might, in a concise and, so to speak, general and ordinary way, distinguish the truth of the Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical depravity. "I received almost always the same answer from all of them—that if I or anyone else wanted to expose the frauds and escape the snares of the heretics who rise up, and to remain intact and in sound faith, it would be necessary, with the help of the Lord, to fortify that faith in a twofold manner: first, of course, by the authority of divine law [Scripture] and then by the tradition of the Catholic Church. "Here, perhaps, someone may ask: ‘If the canon of the scriptures be perfect and in itself more than suffices for everything, why is it necessary that the authority of ecclesiastical interpretation be joined to it?’ Because, quite plainly, sacred Scripture, by reason of its own depth, is not accepted by everyone as having one and the same meaning. . . . "Thus, because of so many distortions of such various errors, it is highly necessary that the line of prophetic and apostolic interpretation be directed in accord with the norm of the ecclesiastical and Catholic meaning" (The Notebooks [A.D. 434]).
Pope Agatho "[T]he holy Church of God . . . has been established upon the firm rock of this Church of blessed Peter, the prince of the apostles, which by his grace and guardianship remains free from all error, [and possesses that faith that] the whole number of rulers and priests, of the clergy and of the people, unanimously should confess and preach with us as the true declaration of the apostolic tradition, in order to please God and to save their own souls" (Letter read at fourth session of III Constantinople [A.D. 680]).
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
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I still have the book written by Eusebius on early Church history. WONderful to read the very words written by that MOST early Church Father.
Thank goodness Jesus was born into a literate society. If He had chosen to be born in India, then, since they had ONLY an oral tradition in those early days, we would have never been able to pore over the very words of the prophets.
India didn't develop an alphabet until the time of Christ. They hadn't felt the need for it and did very well with their oral traditions. Oral traditions are, by their very nature, often unreliable. Trying to get a comprehensive view of the Indian faiths is more than impossible...though Hindu scholars did their best.
This Pope is clearly an idiot if not an outright islamist facilitator. However, his illustrious predecessor, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict XVI, also wrote on this general theme in his “Many Religions, One Covenant: Israel, the Church, and the World”.
Was he crazy too?
Go against Israel, then suffer the consequences. Align with Israel, and the trajectory changes.
I’ve been around Catholics all my life and not one tried to convert me. Same for mainline Protestants.
The only time I’m ever witnessed to is on the internet. Anonymity empowers people to forget the whole debate is a very old one.
We can still debate who suffers the most guilt. ;)
Hopefully, now after 2,000 years, the Church can say what the Pontiff is saying now:
We are united and face extinction under the hand of Ishmael...
A core tenet of Judaism is sins of the father aren’t carried by the son. God judges the individual and is merciful to His children.
I’m not going to blame my Catholic friends today for what transpired thousands of years ago because I’m a reasonable person.
Also, many churches and good Christians hid or protected Jews during WWII instead of turning them into the Nazis, as well as fought and won against Germany and Japan — and won.
Jews serve right alongside multiple faiths in the US military, and work alongside each other in the private sector. Christians of all flavors support the state of Israel.
See how boring this is?
Shalom!
Can you give me the sentences before and after the ones you quoted, please?
Guilt! Yum! Breakfast of Champions!
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