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How do you square your Christian faith with hatred of Muslims? (VANITY)
12/9/15 | Hoagy62

Posted on 12/09/2015 10:22:15 PM PST by hoagy62

As one looks at the articles and comments found on Free Republic, you can see the complete and utter loathing, disgust, and outright hatred towards Muslims. It is viewed as a justified hatred, built on the actions Muslims have taken for decades against Americans and others. Notable attacks include the Beirut bombing of the Marine barracks, Beslan in Russia, the recent San Bernadino attack, and of course 9/11.

However, I was challenged by a few friends recently as to how a professing Christian can have a deep-seated hatred for Muslims. They reminded me of Jesus' command to love one another. They pointed out that He wasn't just talking about Christians loving other Christians (which can be difficult sometimes), but about Christians loving people in their communities...even those one may count as an enemy.

It's been pointed out to me that Christ's death on the cross wasn't just for was also for the Muslim. He wants them to come to know Him as their Savior just as much as He wants us...or The problem they see is that someone won't want to come to know Christ if those who say they're His followers are in your face telling you that they hate you.

When I point out to them about the danger that Muslims have time and time again posed to society, they argue that Jesus didn't care if they were dangerous- He wanted His followers to love them, And, if that love had an element of risk associated with it, His followers were to love them anyway. A reminder of what that looks like can be seen in the story of the Christian men who ended up martyred by the Auca tribe in South America.

In any case, what they said is making me think. I want to know how one can reconcile a hatred for Muslims with Jesus' command to love people. It does seem that you can't do one and do the other as well. Yes...I am aware I may very well be opening up a huge can of worms, but this has been bugging me and I wanted to discuss it with my fellow FReepers.

TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Islam; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: agape; christianity; dhimmitude; faith; falselove; liberalism; muslims; strawman; vanity
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To: hoagy62

First I don’t have to hate you to put a bullet through you IF you come to kill my family.

Second to be honest I DO hate anyone who tries to kill the innocent.

41 posted on 12/09/2015 11:24:56 PM PST by Williams (Dear God, please save us from the Democrats. And the Republicans.)
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To: hoagy62

The Premise: Christians hate muslims.
Premise is false.
Christians are defending themselves from being killed by muslims.
So many are operating on false inflammatory premises at this time that it’s just getting ridiculous.

Pure and simple.
Cut the crap!

42 posted on 12/09/2015 11:26:59 PM PST by doc maverick
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To: hoagy62

Moslem is not a religon, it is a satanic cult. It’s not hate in me, it is survival of my babies and grand babies. I am charged by God with the task of providing and protecting.

43 posted on 12/09/2015 11:29:02 PM PST by exnavy (good gun control: two hands, one shot, one kill.)
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To: hoagy62

I’m not a Christian but I don’t hate muslims I just want them dead.
They wanted me dead first so I have no ethical problem with that.

44 posted on 12/09/2015 11:39:22 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason and rule of law. Prepare!)
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To: easternsky

One can hate them as one hated Nazis. We wish them dead only because they are a threat. What made them a threat was their false ideas, which led them to do awful things.

45 posted on 12/09/2015 11:50:20 PM PST by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: Defiant
Preferably, instead of fighting them because they follow their religion, we should be actively working to convince them why their religion is phony, ridiculous and barbaric.

In spite of the morally relativistic age we live in I think we should still try that and hope to gain momentum in doing so. This is my opening shot in that direction...

Is Islam a religion at all?

What Islam is...

Islam was founded by a psychotic murdering terrorist. He told his followers that to follow him and his god they had to be psychotic murdering terrorists. He wrote a book about how to be a psychotic murdering terrorist in order to be a faithful muslim.

How is that a legitimate religion in any sense of the word?

46 posted on 12/09/2015 11:52:47 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason and rule of law. Prepare!)
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To: hoagy62

Many fail to discern the difference of what a human does versus the potential of what he/she is meant to be, should one choose.

47 posted on 12/10/2015 12:07:56 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: nopardons; hoagy62
What Jesus was teaching in Luke about swords is the subject of some controversy.  Here's the passage:
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
(Luke 22:36-38)
Notice that the disciples think He is speaking literally, and tell Jesus they already have two swords.  This is problematic.  Are two swords enough to defend the disciples against all the enemies they will eventually face? Nope. And later that night, Peter will use one of those swords to cut off the ear of one of their enemies, and what will Jesus do? He heals His enemy's ear. So when Jesus says "It is enough," He probably is not saying they are enough, the two literal swords.  Linguistically, it is just as likely He is saying something more like, we're done talking for now.

Why would He say that? Because they didn't get it. They very often took Jesus literally when He was speaking metaphorically. That could have been the case here. Jesus had sent the disciples out on a mission of preaching and miracles.  They needed no weapons during that time, because Jesus was still in favor with the people.  But a harder, darker time was coming, as the prophecy said, when Jesus would be treated as a criminal, and the disciples would be on the defensive.  The sword He mentions could be a metaphor for that defensive state, or it could be an allowance for a literal use of a sword, but either way, the idea is not of going out and "smiting enemies," but of a change in Jesus' status that would make it dangerous to be His follower.

Furthermore, we know that Jesus did not envision His kingdom being put in place by the sword:
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
(John 18:36)
We also know He said that the one who lives by the sword will die by the sword. If we rely on the weapons of human might to defend us against our spiritual enemy, we are not equipped to win that fight. Paul says we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers in high places. Yes, we have a duty to protect our families, and sometimes that will involve lethal force.  But it is a last resort.  The real battle is with the prince of darkness and his minions.

As for Islam, there is a dark spirit at work there, a spiritual slavery, a deception very deep indeed, and we need to love our enemies while also defending our loved ones.  Both duties are true and valid responsibilities of the Christian. There are among the Muslims souls that God will bring to Himself, who will eventually risk everything to become followers of Jesus Christ. They are our brothers and sisters yet to be in the family of Christian faith.  We cannot claim to love God while at the same time hating those whom God loves.

I remember a young man I knew years ago, who went as a missionary to a Muslim country.  He was a frail individual, but with the perfect temperament for the long hard work of bring the Gospel to these trapped souls, a loving, kind person, with a clear grasp of God's truth. He and those like him are fighting at the front lines where the battle is truly being fought.




48 posted on 12/10/2015 12:14:32 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: hoagy62
It's not hate, it's God given discernment and wisdom.
49 posted on 12/10/2015 12:15:26 AM PST by right way right (May we remain sober over mere men, for God really is our one and only true hope.)
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To: hoagy62

how? well... i believe in tradition.

a broadsword... full plate... a shield... and a strong horse.

50 posted on 12/10/2015 12:24:05 AM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: TigersEye
That's a good description of Islam.

Islam definitely combines the finest parts of nazism, warlordism with a claim of spiritual beliefs. To some limited extent, it can be considered a religion, but it is more than that, as you know. For that reason, because it is not just a view about the cosmos, but about what to do to other people, including us, then it must be met head on as an ideology as well. When we fought communism, we didn't just war with it, we engaged it intellectually, and, in spite of the left, got the better of the argument among those with half a brain. Very few pretend to argue that Marx got it right any more. Similarly with Hitler or Mussolini or Tojo. Their ideologies are in the dustbin. That's where we need to put Islam. While killing off as many of the radical ones who are currently attacking our civilization as possible.

51 posted on 12/10/2015 12:26:12 AM PST by Defiant (There are two Republican parties--the GOPe and the PRP (People's Republican Party). PRP will win.)
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To: hoagy62

52 posted on 12/10/2015 12:30:19 AM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: hoagy62

We love (AGAPE) our fellow man.

We respect legitimate authority.

Islam rejects both in order to place Islam ahead of all others and the worship of a god who rejects perfect justice to have peace with man.

Any system of worship failing to repect the integrity of God and what He has provided, produces a counterfeit substitute for God’s Plan. Islam counterfeits God with Allah, speaks of Jesus Christ as being a good man, but denies His Deity. If Jesus Christ is not also God the Son, then he wasn’t a good man.

Jesus Christ also provided the Perfect Sacrifice to God the Father to allow man to return to God based upon both perfect righteousness of God and His Plan, as well as accepting God’s Perfect Justice in His condemnation of sin.

Jesus Christ also in His humanity, was resurrected, and later ascended to heaven as was witnessed and recorded by all of Creation. Islam fails to address these facts and ignores them.

Believers in God have faith through Christ and love our fellow man as our brethern, so don’t want to see them condemned to the Lake of Fire, but want to witness to them about the good news of what Christ provided at the Cross.

We also know that placing pearls before swine will likely incite them to hate us more than to come to Christ.

Muslims lead soulish lives, without regenerated human spirits. The same happened to all Christians prior to their faith in Christ. So we don’t hate them as our feloow man, but we do hate their slander, murder, liars, and promotion of anything false when truth is made available to them.

When Muslims take action against our God given rights, and plan to deny our rights, they are criminals to our divinely established institution of governance. They also have a right to their system of governance. Our governments might war with one another, but their usurpence of legitimate authority doesn’t justify their actions or thinking.

They should be opposed and controlled to preserve justice and righteous governance.

53 posted on 12/10/2015 12:33:23 AM PST by Cvengr ( Adversity in life & death is inevitable; Stress is optional through faith in Christ.)
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To: Defiant

Thank you. That was just distilling it down to its simplest form based on its origins. Each point is provable beyond any question. There are many more barbaric tenets that could be added each one bolstered by citing Muhammad’s personal participation.

Strip it of its pretense of being a legitimate religion or spiritual tradition then debate its merits as an ideology.

54 posted on 12/10/2015 12:38:28 AM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason and rule of law. Prepare!)
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To: hoagy62
If you see the only the "complete and utter loathing, disgust, and outright hatred towards Muslims," then that is all you seem to focus on. And keep in mind, this is a forum: It's bound to have it's share of trolls.

Personally, I'm not very fond evil people, Muslim or not; especially those who prey on and murder the innocent. But until a majority of Muslims, especially those who are in the U.S., respect and abide our Nation's Constitution, and denounce loudly and clearly any and all of it's radical sects, you are bound to find a majority of us very wary.
55 posted on 12/10/2015 12:42:50 AM PST by hawaiianninja (Palm note to self: "Prepare for some serious 2016 house cleaning.")
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To: hoagy62

I do not hate rabid dogs.
Just know to keep a safe distance.

56 posted on 12/10/2015 12:44:56 AM PST by glasseye
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To: going hot

If there were mooslimbs during His time, he probably would have made exceptions.

Hear Here

57 posted on 12/10/2015 12:46:10 AM PST by S.O.S121.500 (Had ENOUGH Yet ? ........................ Enforce the Bill of Rights .........It is the LAW...)
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To: Cvengr

Good post!

58 posted on 12/10/2015 12:48:05 AM PST by chasio649 (The GOPe can never seem to remember who brought them to the dance)
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To: matt1234

I have no doubt that if Islam predated scripture, it would contain warnings about Islam and the wrath muslims would incur from God and His people.
Hear some more

59 posted on 12/10/2015 12:48:47 AM PST by S.O.S121.500 (Had ENOUGH Yet ? ........................ Enforce the Bill of Rights .........It is the LAW...)
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To: hoagy62

So, you’re saying the answer to a Jim Jones style death cult that has enthralled a billion people is love and compassion?

But let’s speak a bit of truth here; the most likely next victim of a Muslim is yet another Muslim. A car bomb at a wedding, a suicide bomber in a market, random gunning down on the street, or the ever popular cutting off of the head.

And to make things more interesting, 70% of Muslims agree that someone who leaves their cult deserves whatever happens to them.

I’m all for showing compassion and love for a murderer once they are behind bars. When they’re in the middle of a killing spree, don’t you think that the almighty would prefer that you take steps to defend the helpless rather than line up to be the next victim?

60 posted on 12/10/2015 12:55:25 AM PST by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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