Posted on 10/27/2015 3:50:23 AM PDT by Colofornian
People who have died are very important to members of the Mormon Church. The dead are a very important aspect of the Mormon gospel. The sixth President of the Church, Joseph F. Smith, taught,
“We will not finish our work until we have saved ourselves, and then not until we shall have saved all depending upon us; for we are to become saviors upon Mount Zion, as well as Christ. We are called to this mission. The dead are not perfect without us, neither are we without them [see D&C 128:18].” (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church, Joseph F. Smith, 410)
Because the dead are such an integral part of Mormonism, it makes sense that Mormon children would be taught about the Church’s doctrine of baptism for the dead.
In a Mormon Church manual produced for teaching children ages 8 through 11...children learn “Joseph Smith Teaches about Baptism for the Dead”...
...Two of the offered enrichment activities focus on telling the children what most of us would call ‘ghost stories.’
[Snip]
Mormons are inspired by these stories. Unlike Christianity, which recognizes a biblical prohibition against contact with the dead (...Deuteronomy 18:9-14...), Mormonism embraces it. Joseph Heinerman, whose book is quoted...in the Primary 5 manual, states,
“These temple manifestations signify God’s distinct approval of the temple labors performed by His people here upon the earth. Hopefully, these inspiring stories will edify the readers as they have me and motivate them to perform temple work more diligently on behalf of both the living and the dead.” (Temple Manifestations, Preface)
God says communication with the dead is a sin, yet Mormonism teaches little children to welcome necromantic contact, be inspired by it, and interpret it as God’s direction and/or approval of proxy ordinance work for the dead. Does anyone else find this troubling?
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.mrm.org ...
[Notice also that quote from Lds "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, who taught that salvation is a self-effort and Jesus Christ isn't the only "savior" around...
So, according to Jos. Smith, he will become my savior "as well as Christ?"
Unlike Christianity, Mormonism is a cult.
Do Mormons still consider Mountain Meadows to be haunted as they did after the murder of the Fancher wagon train there?
Well, not just Joseph Smith...but any Mormon who dead-dunks you by proxy & puts you on the temple assembly line religious ritual to do that
(ya need to understand that if Mormonism...just a minute fraction of the entire world...has to "save" the world via proxy baptisms, that nothing short of a massive non-stop dunking enterprise will do...and even then...they'll come far short of even just attempting to "save" everyone who is living now)
One of the fave statements made by most of the Mormon "prophets" & "apostles" is to reference an out-of-context OT verse and applying it to themselves as "saviors" (plural) on Mt. Zion ("Zion" to them = Lds church)
It is too often a weakness of men so insecure in their own faith that strength is sought by weakening other’s.
Joseph Smith teaches? Joseph Smith? I don't think so. I will stick with Jesus Christ's teaching thank you.
Very good question.
Mountain Meadows Massacre Anecdote "A":
Five years ago, FREEPER poster Livius told an account in a Sept. 10, 2010 post:
"I was driving across the country once many years ago and we arrived at a park with a campground in the late evening and decided to stop there for the night. We set up camp and went to bed almost immediately, because the place was somehow unpleasant. My kids didn’t sleep at all and I had to keep getting up and going to them, and in fact none of us could sleep. I woke up in a real panic in the middle of the night, something that never happens to me because I love going camping and I am not nervous at all. As soon as the faintest dawn broke, we got up and packed up and drove out of the camp. At the gate, we stopped and read the sign: Mountain Meadows. There was a brief description of what had happened on the site, but it wasn’t until later that I read the full story. However, that did explain our horrible night (and I’m not even a very “sensitive” person). It must have been awful."
Source: Sept. 10, 2010 post by Freeper Livius [Post #15]
In that same thread (post #22), Livius added: "It [Mountain Meadows Massacre location] is a very creepy site, and I knew nothing about it when I arrived, so it wasn't creepy because I somehow expected it to be so. I was in one other place once that had the same effect on me, and it did indeed turn out that someone had been murdered there by someone else who lived in the house and had never been brought to justice. So yes, I think the blood does cry out from the ground."
Mountain Meadows Anecdote "B":
A ghosttraveler.com (traveller two "l"s??) used to be up as a Web site...now defunct...
A few years back, it had an entry that read as follows:
...North of St George - Mountain Meadows Massacre Memorial...a bizarre and twisted tale of a group of Christian pioneers from Arkansas who...were slaughtered by a group of Mormons painted to look like Paiute Indians. Investigators said...there were actual Paiute Indians participating...the tribe officially dismisses this. Brigham Young, some sources say, gave the order to carry this atrocity out, in which 120 men women and children were brutally slaughtered and left to the desert critters...Several under the age of 7 or 8 were allowed to live, because most likely it was felt they wouldn't be able to give an account of the murders (they were recovered from several Mormon homes a few years later)...it was reportedly a bloodbath scene of Biblical proportions. A monument was erected by Army Brevet Major James H. Carleton, on which he had inscribed "Vengeance is mine: I will repay, saith the Lord". It lasted just long enough for Brigham Young to have it torn down again. This cycle has gone on for over a century, with monument after monument being desecrated...Anyway, on to the ghosts...
...visitors report the mumblings of phantom voices from the nearby creek.
Website re: location of above-mentioned site: Mountain Meadows Association
Jesus replied, “You are IN ERROR because you DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES OR THE POWER OF GOD. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you..." (Matt. 22:29-31)
So are you accusing Jesus of being "insecure"???
Good question.
Are you comparing yourself to Jesus?
Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
Mark 7:6-8,13: He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” …13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
See also the entire chapter of Matthew 23!
So are you accusing Jesus of repeatedly expressing some sort of "insecurity"??? Really?
Is that the best you can do? Indirectly throw stones at Jesus' condemnation of others' religious 'adherencies'?
Seems to me you are awfully--sloppily--inconsistent...
You claim it's an "insecure...weakness" to attempt to dilute another's faith...
So what do you do? You attempt to dilute my faith which says to "11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them...13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. (Ephesians 5)
By your own logic, if you were so "secure" in your "faith," you wouldn't say anything negative about anyone -- including me.
A principle is a principle.
If you apply a general principle -- which you did -- you stated:
"It is too often a weakness of men so insecure in their own faith that strength is sought by weakening other’s"
-- and we KNOW Jesus indeed sought to dismiss the religious stranglehold that the Pharisees had upon some...
These clear words show this...
...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (Mt 16:12) +
... you have taken away the key to knowledge. (Lk 11:52)
+ Matthew 23...
...then your general principle runs smack dab into the wall of Jesus' words...
You're saying that same Jesus,' God's only Son's torture and death on the cross, isn't necessary - at least not to Mormons?
All I need is Joseph Smith and other Mormons being "baptized" for me, gets me into heaven?
So Jesus really wasn't needed? Not only did He not need to be sacrificed and crucified on the cross, we just needed to wait for Joseph Smith, who did it all?
Gee, that's not what I learned in Sunday School.
...Or what about the 74 deaths linked to the Solar Temple 1994-97? Cult Suicide
Laotzu, just as there are physical deaths, there is such a thing as spiritual death.
You can mozie about & pretend it doesn't exist...and that you don't care about people's spiritual destination...I don't buy into that "lazy-fair" doctrine...
(Well, I am not saying that...and not every grassroots Mormon says that...)
Yet it is quite interesting that in the Mormon Hymnal -- in a song called "Praise to the Man" (which is, btw, a DIRECT worship song sung unto Joseph Smith...NOT Jesus)...you can find these interesting lyrical lines:
lst verse:
Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
(Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
2nd verse:
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.
3rd verse:
Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
4th verse:
Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "Brother Joseph" again.?
You catch all that? Not "Millions shall know Jesus Christ...but Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph'" ...that's the REAL Mormon "gospel."
that's not what I learned in Sunday School.
So I would surmise, "No, you didn't learn the above Joseph Smith worship song in Sunday School!"
So.....you're saying that Mormons don't look to Jesus Christ, Son of God, sent to earth "at the right time, to become sin for all mankind," to pay God's wrath for sin, to become the Sacrifical Lamb, to "give His life as a ransom for sinners?"
Well, look closely at the lyrics in the 4th verse of the Mormon fave hymn, "Praise to the Man." Do you see how they totally turn around the notion of atonement:
Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
So, it's the emphasis in this hymn isn't on Jesus' atoning blood; nope...it's the "earth" which must "atone" for Joseph Smith's blood!!!
I guess Mormons then put Joseph Smith above Jesus!!
Don't Mormons know the bible calls that blasphemy, a sin against God?
You’re saying that same Jesus,’ God’s only Son’s torture and death on the cross, isn’t necessary - at least not to Mormons?
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It’s my understanding and I could be wrong, that the cross was not that important to mormons but rather the tears Jesus shed in the garden.
Colofornian, correct this if I’m off base.
Has Jesus always existed.....is He eternal per Mormonism? Or was He created?
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