Posted on 10/24/2015 9:52:17 AM PDT by Salvation
Msgr. Charles Pope
Question: A friend of mine is forever mentioning Fatima. What am I, as a Catholic convert, to make of this? Am I required to accept it?— Name withheld, Austin, Texas
Answer: There is probably no other prophecy so well attested and verified as that of Our Lady of Fatima. That said, the Church has never required Catholics to believe private revelations as a matter of faith. The Church, however, does hold up for the faithful certain apparitions, devotions and private revelations as worthy of acceptance and pious adherence.
The teachings of our Lady at Fatima in 1917 have proven trustworthy and been verified both by signs and by the simple fact that they all came true. Her warnings of dire consequences if we did not pray and convert have sadly proven to be accurate. She warned of another, more terrible war (World War II). She said Russia would spread errors, and she warned a pope would be struck down.
These messages were verified by two signs predicted by Our Lady. The first was the miracle of the sun, where more than 70,000 people saw the sun dance and move as if falling from the sky. She also spoke of great lights in the sky that would serve as a final warning before the terrible war of which she had warned. Those lights appeared all over Europe just before Hitler invaded Poland in the form of a stunning display of the aurora borealis.
A third secret spoke of a bishop dressed in white garb who would be martyred. Many link this to the assassination attempt on Pope St. John Paul II, wherein he escaped full martyrdom by the prayers Our Lady had asked for.
A final and belated prophecy from Fatima seems to have come in the form of a letter written by Sister Lucia dos Santos to Cardinal Carlo Caffarra. The year was 1981 and, according to the transcript of an interview with Cardinal Caffarra, she wrote the following:
“[T]he final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don’t be afraid, she added, because anyone who operates for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be contended and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. And then she concluded: however, Our Lady has already crushed its head.”
And once again, the prophecy seems accurate, because this is exactly where we are. So, while belief is not required, it does not seem rational to reject these apparitions, either, due to the evidence. Finally, it never hurts to pray for peace and the conversion of sinners, which is the fundamental request of Our Lady of Fatima.
And you would be incorrect. Not all of the ECFs believed this. Paul did not believe it.
TC, you're good a catholic talking points but not actual Biblical talking points.
Not as the Catholic church teaches it.
Born again Christians confess sin but aren't obligated to prove how sorry to God they are for it, or to perform religious acts assigned by a religious leader to qualify for the forgiveness that God the Father freely bestows on His children..
if OSAS, and no need for confession is your claim....then what keeps you from living whatever lifestyle that you choose.
Our desire to please God and a revulsion of sin. Apparently, something beyond the grasp of most Catholics (otherwise the question would not even be asked) who seem to think that the only reason to not live as they please is because they somehow think that keeps them from going to hell.
You are saved...PERIOD...Christ did it.......you do something wrong, oh well, all has been taken care of..
EXACTLY right.
According to Colossians, the record of debt that stood against us to condemn us has been canceled, done away with. It doesn't exist any more.
I don't see where you feel that you are responsible for anything that you do...there always seems to be the excuse that all was forgiven even before you did it???? I truly don't understand that concept.
Clearly.......
I believe a lot of the answers you seek to questions posed can be found in Ezekiel 36. This is where God promises to indwell a believer, put His statutes on their heart and cause them to walk in them. Jesus was teaching this to Nicidemus in John 3. At the time Nicodemus did not discern such teaching.
On another note "OSAS" is not a real theological term. I believe it is a term used by those who don't believe in justification by faith.
Which is simply more ignorance, as nowhere in the life of the church in Scripture, interpretive of the gospels, is the Lord's supper manifest as "the source and summit of the Christian life," "in which our redemption is accomplished," due to it being a sacrifice for sins;
With the elements being transubstantiated into the Lord's "real" body and blood by a class of believers distinctively titled "priests," and which is consumed in order to obtain spiritual and eternal life.
Instead, the Lord's supper is nowhere manifestly described in all of Acts or what follows (other than a "feast of charity: Jude 1:12) except in one epistle, and in which the communion of the body of Christ in the Lord's Supper is taught as being akin to how the pagans have fellowship with devils via their feasts.
And the focus is on the church as the body of Christ, which the Corinthians are chastised for not recognizing by eating independent of others, and shaming them that were hungry. Which was contrary to the recognition of the Lord's unselfish death for the church which He bought with His own sinless shed blood.
The Cath Eucharist is simply not that of what Scripture teaches on the Lord;s Supper, and in which only the metaphorical view easily corresponds to the totality of Scripture, as explained below, while the RC view requires neoplatonic theology.
The Lord's Supper: solemn symbolism or real flesh and blood?
(Note: allow scripts for pop up Bible verses
What kind of nonsense is this, as if salvation by faith equates to "Those who die wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire."
Salvation by faith refers to a faith which effects obedience towards its Object, the Lord Jesus, which the elect profess.
And which need for works if such faith was to be considered salvific is what reformers as Luther clearly taught .
This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow. †[Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]
...it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-faith.txt]
Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.†[Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]
Scripture does warn believers against having an "evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God," (Heb. 3:12) and falling from grace (Gal. 5:1-4) and drawing back into perdition (Heb. 20:38) thru unbelief (since faith justifies), and thus works to chasten souls to repentance, lewst they be condemned with the rest of the world. (1Co. 11:30-32),
But it is faith which appropriate justification, thus such souls as Cornelius and household were born again before baptism, God "purifying their hearts by faith," (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9) while works - faith in action - justify one as being a believer. Thus various promises such as "to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness," (Romans 4:5) whosoever "believeth on him," whosoever "shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead," "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". (Romans 10:13) As well as "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)
Likewise Christ said, "whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?" (Matthew 9:5) For the former equated to the latter, healing testifying to the removal of the chastisement. Yet forgiveness is a separate act, but not separate from effects. Likewise justification by faith. The latter is a counted for righteousness without any merit of works, even as "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness," (Romans 10:10) yet it is inseparable from the confession which is made testifying to salvation.
For the one who confesses the Lord Jesus by mouth and in baptism and newness of life testifies to being a saved believer, but which is not the same thing as teaching that eternal life is truly merited by the works one does by God's grace. (Trent)
God rewards faith (Heb. 10:35) in the light of its fruits, but which is not merit in the sense of actual worthiness of eternal life, which is an unmerited Gift, unlike damnation which is what man has actually earned. (Rm. 6:23)
When one comes before God for Salvation the ONLY thing they can bring with them is their sin......religious ‘acts’ nullify the Gospel Message as “something more”, or “other than”, or in “addition to”.
Self-reliance and self-confidence via rituals and religious acts cannot live at the foot of the cross......
Perhaps the poster to whom you wrote could tell us what sin would take God by surprise AFTER a Christian is born from above in this life? ... Any catholic able to do that? ... crickets
Some catholics appear to carry lots of matches, so they are repeatedly constructing straw men to use their matches. Makes them feel all warm and fuzzy to make a straw man and burn it down. Try not to attribute rational thought to such exercises.
While you may believe it, Ezekiel is not cited, nor does that scripture in Ezekiel match the Evangelical model alleged in John. One could see models for some Catholic views in Ezekiel (Baptism, Penance). Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it. Thus saith the Lord God; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel, Catholic chapter thirty six, Protestant verses sixteen to thirty eight,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
bold and underline emphasis mine
Your question should be directed to the RCs on this thread who are criticizing non-caths for rejecting Fatima. They sure don’t seem to think we have this freedom. “Devotion” to Fatima is what is termed optional but to reject the whole idea of Mary appearing to three children and giving them personal revelations intended for ALL Christians isn’t.
BTW...I’ve been to Fatima and there was no sense of the presence of God there. Just hundreds of desperate people hoping for some personal miracle that crawling on their bloody knees up to the front of the chapel of Mary showing their devotion to her might be granted to them. Also...plenty of beggars, pickpockets, purveyors of overpriced candles, statuettes and assorted “blessed” knickknacks that reminded me of what Jesus probably saw in the temple that outraged him enough to drive them out with whips.
This guy keeps throwing the same nonsense out there day after day, week after week, etc,...No matter how many times the evidence is shown he pretends he doesn't see it...
Go back and read the progression of comments made by Eagleone. You’ll then see your confusion over what Eagleone said and what you may think you are refuting.
I’ll bet you read that somewhere and now parrot it when you can without ever either researching or examining its truthfulness.
And in addition real evangelical churches do not reject the Lord’s Supper, but reject the Cath deformation of it.
Absolutely...
“You get to believe anything that you want to, but that’s not what the church, which Christ Himself founded,taught.” Hmm, looks like we have exposed the root of the deception imprisoning catholic minds ...
Where’s “penance?”
The rest is your opinion. Unless you could provide authorized Catholic interpretation of Ezekiel 36 and John 3?
The poster cannot shake the heresy taught in catholiciism that one must earn the right to claim what God gives by His Grace, not our works.
I highlighted it in bold. Read and meditate on the scripture I posted and it should be obvious.
The rest is your opinion.
Ezekiel is not cited, nor does that scripture in Ezekiel match the Evangelical model alleged in John. All one has to do is read Ezekiel to see it does not match the Evangelical model and interpretation of John.
Catholics FORMED it and ALL Christians believed it for 1,600 years and suddenly the revolutionaries decided to do it their own way....talk about deformation!!!
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