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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; aMorePerfectUnion
Great answer, it is always great to see the Christian doctrine and command of Jesus to baptize to be held up to scorn and derision by referring to it as “ water activities”. The Muslims must be laughing their butts off, good job.

The mock outrage is cute, but not warranted. Did you actually read what I wrote, or just scan it to find something that offends? 80% of what I wrote was straight from God's Word. But since that did not take root in the spirit, let's try another approach.

Your own screen name says - ONE BAPTISM. If there is only ONE BAPTISM, according to Paul in Ephesians 4, there can only be ONE BAPTISM. So which is it my friend - water or spiritual? Here's a fun exercise, see if you can find ANYTHING about the necessity for WATER baptism in that same letter - Ephesians.

Still unsure? That's why God gave us His Word. There is no shortage of Revelation in God's Living Word.

Matthew 3:11 (KJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John the Baptist was the last Old Testament prophet. He baptized people with physical water, preaching the Kingdom of Heaven and repentance to Israel. He recognized that water baptism was just a shadow of what was to come. Note what will be different when the Messiah comes - he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. So we see a change is coming on the nature of baptism.(Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:7-8, Luke 3:16)

John 4:1-2 (KJV)

1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Simply note this verse for now, Jesus was not baptizing anyone with water.

Acts 1:4-5 (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

In his post resurrection meeting with the disciples, Jesus again refers to a coming change - a spiritual baptism rather than water. Peter quotes this very verse in Acts 11 when, after sharing the Gospel with Cornelius' household, Gentiles, they are all baptized in the Spirit. It should be noted that in Acts 10 Peter did call for them to be baptized in water AFTER they were Baptized by the Spirit. Was that really necessary? I'll save that for another day.

Moving on...

Matthew 28:19 (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus lays out a future formula - teach the nations (Israel was not reckoned among the nations - Numbers 23:9), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. A careful reading of those passages shows that neither baptism (John's, or the one in Matthew 28) applies to the Body of Christ, who are children of God, and neither Jew or Gentile, nor are they accounted among the nations. (1 Corinthians 10:32)

Note that in every example in Acts, nobody uses the three names instructed in Matthew 28:

Acts 2:38 (KJV)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16 (KJV)

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 10:48 (KJV)

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Three examples should suffice. Did they disobey Jesus, or rightly understand that Matthew 28 applied to a future time of judgment, where Jesus would exercise full authority on the Earth. (Hebrews 2:5-9, esp v 8) This was a slight digression to show that the purpose and type of baptisms can change depending on the age and audience. And we must be careful attempting to apply what belongs to Israel, to the Church, and what belongs to a future dispensation, to the current one. Everything must fall in its proper place and time.

What about the time of Acts? The Kingdom is still being preached to Israel, expecting the immediate return of Jesus. During the 40 years after the resurrection (number of probation), upon Israel's national repentance, Jesus was prepared to return. The Apostles were called to preach to Israel. They kept the Law, went to Temple to worship, and only with divine intervention (Cornelius/Peter) did they preach to Gentiles. They even tried to force the Law on Gentiles. Even Paul, though called to the Gentiles, kept the feasts and went to the Temple throughout the time of Acts. In Acts 28 there is a final declaration against Israel to the Jews in Rome - Acts 28:28 (KJV) 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. Not too long after this, Rome would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple. The Promised Kingdom would be delayed for a time, although every prophecy to Israel WILL be fulfilled. God had another plan, it was Hidden until revealed to Paul after Israel rejected Jesus. It was a spiritual body with Jesus as the Head. The religious divisions (Jew and Gentile) have no place. You can see this unveiled in the letters written after Acts 28, especially Ephesians and Colossians. The Mystery Paul revealed has nothing to do with religion.

You will find little mention of water baptism in Paul's latter letters. If you look at the letters written during the Acts time, Romans, Galatians, Corinthians, Thessalonians and others, you will see a gradual decline in references to this practice. Why? Because its not needed when you can be spiritually reborn. God cares about your heart. Look at it from God's POV, if the goal is to take spiritually dead people, and make them spiritually alive in Christ, physical water is useless. Our Heavenly Father is lifting Believers up, getting their focus on Spiritual things, not earthly things. You could take the meanest SOB down to the creek and dunk him a hundred times and not change him spiritually one bit. But if you preach God's Word to him, that seed will transform him from the inside out! BUT, this transformation is not done by human hands. We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.

I am not holding anything in God's Word up to "scorn and derision". Quite the contrary, I am rightly dividing God's Word, recognizing that not everything is written TO or ABOUT me in God's Word, but everything is FOR me. You can't just pick and choose what you are going to follow - that's religion. If you think water baptism is so critical since the apostles practiced, why don't you keep the Law, or go to Temple? They did. Why don't you minister to the circumcision only? They did the majority of the time. Its this kind of backwards thinking that gave us religion, and not the vibrant, overcoming Body of Christ.

267 posted on 10/08/2015 4:49:55 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: Kandy Atz; aMorePerfectUnion

There is only one baptism. For someone to ask the question is it spiritual or water, presupposes there are two baptisms.....one spiritual and one water.
To ask such a question reflects a total lack of understanding concerning baptism. But I am not surprised that someone who refers to it as “water activities” would ask such a question.
Btw, having a post contain 90% quotes from the Bible and then insulting the Christian Faith is still insulting the Christian Faith.
The Scriptures always refer to baptism as baptism........false teachers will use the term water baptism. Here’s a fun exercise, try and find the term water before baptism anywhere in the Scriptures ( don’t limit yourself to Ephesians ).
I would try your fun excercise challenge to me, but since the term water baptism is not in the Bible ( in Ephesians or anywhere else ) I would be wasting my time.
I would point you to Ephesians 5:26 which shows how Christians are regenerated.
I have never heard anyone compare baptism to the law and to say Matthew 28 doesn’t apply to Christians is just bizarre. The reference in Acts to baptizing in the name of Jesus means by the authority of Jesus. Christians have always used the Trinitarian formula contained in Matthew 28.
Once one abandons historical orthodox Christian beliefs, all kind of weird and bizarre interpretations can be invented.
You speak of a vibrant overcoming Body of Christ. Yet if one took your beliefs and tried to find anyone in history that would have agreed with you, it would be the same number as references to water baptism in the Bible. ZERO. So much for vibrant overcoming Body of Christ.
But hey, it’s so much more fun to make of Christianity than it is to actually believe and practice it, right?


270 posted on 10/08/2015 8:26:57 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Kandy Atz
In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus lays out a future formula - teach the nations (Israel was not reckoned among the nations - Numbers 23:9), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. A careful reading of those passages shows that neither baptism (John's, or the one in Matthew 28) applies to the Body of Christ, who are children of God, and neither Jew or Gentile, nor are they accounted among the nations. (1 Corinthians 10:32)

Your doctrine is madness. What Protestant devolved faith community taught you this ?

Well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew, Catholic chapter fifteen, Protestant verses seven to nine,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

276 posted on 10/09/2015 8:16:13 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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