Near-death experience, Many stories of those who tell of the phenomenon often don’t reflect...

OSV.com ^ | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Near-death experience Many stories of those who tell of the phenomenon often don’t reflect what we know through Scripture

Msgr. Charles Pope

9/16/2015

Question: I read a book by an author who had a near-death experience and claims that God told him that one’s belief system was irrelevant. This seems like New Age indifferentism. Can you comment on near-death phenomena and what this author said?— Bob Tisovich, Ely, Minnesota

Answer: Near-death experiences (NDEs) seem to be a rather widely reported phenomenon with certain common features. One has an “out of body” experience with a reported capacity to see oneself as if looking down. There is usually some experience of a light to which the person is drawn, sometimes down a tunnel. There is usually some sense of peace and joy but also a sense that now is not the time, and one is “sent back.”

While it cannot be denied that NDEs are reported with enough frequency that likely they do happen, they are problematic in certain ways. First, they can reasonably be explained naturally as consciousness fades. The Church usually looks for natural explanations and seeks to rule them out before quickly asserting a supernatural cause.

A second, a more significant problem with many (not all) NDEs is that they would seem to violate or skip over certain biblical and Church teachings regarding the last things. One aspect that is missing in most of them is judgment. Scripture says, “it is appointed that human beings die once, and after this the judgment” (Heb 9:27). St. Paul also speaks of us passing through fire to have our works tested and purified after death (1 Cor 3:13-15). The teaching on judgment and purification are seemingly absent in many, if not most NDE reports.

Even more problematic are the NDE reports that speak of being able to walk around heaven, see loved ones, etc. But heaven is not attained in bypassing the judgment scene and the purification that most, if not all of us, will need. Scripture says of heaven: “Nothing unclean will enter it” (Rv 21:27). So, such reports seem dubious, if Scripture is a reliable guide — and it obviously is.

Your question refers also to a book by an NDE “survivor” who claims that in his discussions with “God,” God didn’t care what spiritual tradition one had. But this is in contradiction to Scripture, which teaches there is no other name given by which we are to be saved other than Jesus (Acts 4:12). So, New Age gnosticism does not save one, and it would seem that the real God does care.

But here, too, is another societal ill of our times: the rejection of the Word of God in favor of often trendy visionaries. Death awaits us all, and we do well to simply heed the Lord’s warning to be ready by living sober, holy and devout lives.

[umgud]

At 16, I thought it both cool and inexplicable. I had no clue as to what OOB’s & NDE’s were nor had I even heard of them. This was in the 1960’s.

I shouldn’t have insinuated I now understand it, just that I know what it is referred to.

[ifinnegan]

This new movie is exactly what I mean by a bogus con to make money.

It’s a hot commodity now.

It is not as low as fake faith healers like Binny Hinn.

[stevio]

I’ll read this article later, but this intrigues me. I’ve listened to a lot of NDEs on youtube. I find there are similar veins throughout each story. Some have completely turned their lives around, some not so much. The ones who explain hell sound Biblical.

[ifinnegan]

I see.

I had a fast OOB when working at fast food and burning my hand on the grill.

[AU72]

You either believe you live on after death or the light goes out for good.

Question is those who believe it's lights out change their minds after studying NDEs.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

I would dismiss most NDEs as little more than the commonality of oxygen deprivation.

One, much rarer story of NDEs was from a man with a heart condition who repeatedly had NDEs. He spoke with a woman who had also experienced multiple NDEs. She told him something very enigmatic: “When you see Jesus, she is beautiful.”

Some time later, he actually did think he saw Jesus. Magnificent, gigantic in size, and giving off a radiant light full of love that made him want to fall down on his knees and pray. And, after the fact, he noted that Jesus was definitely a “male.”

He told the woman how magnificent Jesus was, but that he was definitely a man. She rebutted him by saying that maybe Jesus looked like you expected him to look.

Because of his NDEs, he said he saw Jesus several more times, but noticed that Jesus never said or did anything, before he firmly concluded that “Whatever that is, it is *not* Jesus.”

She also reached the same conclusion, yet noted that a lot of people think they see Jesus during a NDE. If they only see Jesus once, they are certain it was Jesus for the rest of their lives. Only if they see it again and again do they ever realize that it is no more Jesus than a painting of Jesus. For what it actually might be, there is no consensus.

[Bob434]

I went to hell in my NDE (Yes, I’m am and was a born again Christian when it happened)

Was in hospital very sick- got peritonitis in addition to my illness and had really high fever- passed out while throwing up- went into convulsions, Nurses and docs rushed in icing me down- dousing me in water etc-

During that time something happened- I felt myself slip away- and went to hell (so now when people tell me to ‘go to hell’ I can tell them- “already been there- and they sent me back for you”)

Was immediately engulfed in suffocating sand, crawling with insects, worms, and very hot (probably felt the heat because of the high fever)- I remember trying to catch my breath but couldn’t because of the heat-

Began to weep uincontrollably - heard a pinging sound- and then a voice said “Count these sounds” I began counting, but the sounds got faster and faster and I lost ocunt- and began to weep uncontrollably again because I failed

The voice then said “Don’t worry, you no longer exist” And I was ripped out of place I was in and into what I can only describe as ‘complete nothingness’

That sounds better than hell huh? NOPE! There was still, somehow, a sense of ‘consciousness’ yet I was in a huge empty black void and oddly aware of it. The sense of ‘nothingness’ was so isolating, so lonely, so empty that it was overwhelming

Then I came to in the hospital bed

Now- do I believe in actual NDE’s where the person ‘dies’ and ‘sees’ other worlds? No- I believe something happens to the synapses during the dying process, or due to high fevers- I believe it’s a ‘coping mechanism’ (kind of like the shock that animals feel, where they don’t feel anything or really know what’s going on, when they are being killed by other animals)

What happened to me was no doubt brought on by the high fever- but what I experienced felt and seemed as real as me sitting here typing this- I can only describe it a kind of ‘lucid dreaming’ type of experience brought on by high fever and synapses going wild-

I know NDE victims like to describe floating above their bodies and ‘seeing things In the room’ that they ‘couldn’t possibly have seen in their bodily position’ BUT I feel they DID see the things they describe- perhaps in a reflection, or subconsciously at some point- I believe there is a rational explanation for it-

[odawg]

Appendicitis. It happened while they were preparing to operate.

[odawg]

Didn’t see that. Nor the golden bowl. I would assume, just a hunch, that the golden bowl is some sort of protection humans have.

[zot]

Thanks for your testimony. Yes, discernment is always necessary.

Here is some more testimony on this subject: http://bswett.com/1993-02NDE.html

[Bob434]

[[I know there are both Catholics and Protestants that do buy in to it.]]

They don’t buy into ‘an experience’ (of some sort) because it’s never happened to them- period- believe me, an ‘NDE’ (however you want to explain it out- whether a medical issue, or a physical issue where the person actually does die and leave the body)) is a very harrowing experience that affects the person’s life for the rest of their lives

Whether physical explanation or medical, the one fact remains SOMETHING happens- and the experience is one that no drug can replicate for it’s ‘realness’ . (Real, meaning that the oen who experiences it is experiencing something that SEEMS so real that it is hard to distinguish between whether it actually was real, or just some synapses misfiring- causing the brain to be flooded with endorphins, and drawing from memory stores memories that are either happy ones or frightening ones- My personal belief is that this is what happens- and I come ot that conclusion for several reason- HOWEVER, I can not discount the possibility that some NDE’s ‘may be’ genuine out of body experiences- I think it very unlikely, but I can’t say that it definitely does not happen)

[COBOL2Java]

There is a new movie out “90 Minutes in Heaven” based on a book by Baptist minister Joe Piper.

There was little said about Heaven except the wonderful feeling the bright non-earthly light and meeting family members and friends, but not meeting Jesus. There was nothing said about judgement or real entrance into Heaven or about salvation.

It was mostly about the pain and suffering he experienced after the accident, and his longing to return to “Heaven” and rejection of (and finally accepting) the help he received on earth from family and parishioners.

My daughter stated that the brother of a friend who had several near death experiences just saw darkness.

---

I believe that there are innumerable spiritual forces around us, both good and malevolent, and the evil ones can impose themselves on an individual who is experiencing one of these NDEs (an "in-between" condition, for lack of a better term), feeding them a deceptive impression of "heaven" for the purposes of leading them astray, to perhaps embrace some New Age belief. That is why they come back believing they've walked around in "heaven" seeing relatives, old friends, etc. Never forget, these demons have enormous powers and are capable of tremendous deception.

[M Kehoe]

Good afternoon.

This “NDE” stuff is bogus. Just tickling ears.

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I can tell you that you don't have enough data, or analysis to claim this is "bogus."

You can be a skeptic (as I), but it's not a good idea to make pronouncements to the world.

5.56mm

[GreyFriar]

Thank you for the link and endorsement on the necessity of discernment.

[Bob434]

[[This was not a NDE, but a personal experience that has left me believing that OBE is real, but accounts must be taken carefully.]]

I think the proper response should be “It leaves a person with the distinct impression that it may be real, however, there could be another explanation such as a medical reason why our brains perceive that we leave our body- I believe it was a real experience, however, I’m open to another explanation IF one exists”

You could have eaten some bad tunafish that day- (Not being a Smart Alec- just pointing out that some physical cause (doesn’t have to be bad tunafish- could be something like a cold coming on, nervousness, anxiety, perhaps an overload of some mineral or vitamin- I’m just suggesting there could be other causes that we don’t realize) could have produced a brief ‘blip’ In the brain- people that get too much nicotine can get hallucination-like episodes, too much caffeine- same thing- the brain gets overloaded with crap and reacts funny-

[ifinnegan]

I guess NDE is different than Dead and came back.

The current movie commercial states he died.

But death is appointed once, then the judgement.

[Bob434]

[[I believe that there are innumerable spiritual forces around us, both good and malevolent, and the evil ones can impose themselves on an individual who is experiencing one of these NDEs (an “in-between” condition, for lack of a better term), feeding them a deceptive impression of “heaven” for the purposes of leading them astray, to perhaps embrace some New Age belief.]]

cobo- You are exactly correct- this is the reason occults work their people into ‘near death’ states during trances- the people are starving, exhausted to the point of death, probably severely dehydrated as well- in order to reach that ‘in-between state’ you describe so that the spirits will take over their bodies

While a born again person can not be possessed, they can be heavily influenced by demons- and unsaved people who are led to believe they ‘went ot heaven’ will no doubt think they have done enough in this life that God will accept them because after all “He did once before” according to their experience- and so these folks end up never seeking TRUE salvation- they are convinced they are going to heaven based on what they saw (which is VERY powerful- people with NDE’s often are VERY adamant about what they see, and will not even consider that there might be other explanations- they saw it, therefore it’s true In their minds

[RegulatorCountry]

While it’s comforting to think that loved ones who have passed on were welcomed with love by friends and family in a peaceful, beautiful place, it’s not in line with Biblical teaching and so I question the phenomenon. What is Biblical is that the person, the consciousness or soul, is separate from the body, so the thought that one could momentarily experience existing outside the body are not what gives me pause. The only support I can find for such a thing would be Old Testament, being “gathered unto your people” at death, speaking of Sheol. From a Christian perspective, the righteous were freed from Sheol by Jesus Christ. Maybe Catholics are less dubious about this because of a belief in Purgatory? I don’t know the answer to that.

[GreyFriar]

In my view this post/thread is neither Catholic Caucaus or “bait.” This is a thread that brings up a topic that is generic “Christian” in nature rather than Protestant or Catholic.

NDEs have been experienced by Protestants, Catholics and many with no faith what so ever. thus this discussion is based upon Msgr Pope’s comments. See my post # 11, also posts #27 and #30.

[Bob434]

[[But death is appointed once, then the judgement.]]

Unless Jesus intervenes (and In the new testament, the disciples intervened as well)