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To: beancounter13; Cvengr
Try this one: James 2:18

Problem is, Protestants (i.e. "Sola Scriptura types') CAN and DO read the Bible... Problem seems to be that Roman Catholic Cultists cannot read the Bible in CONTEXT.

You alluded to James 2:18. Did you read v. 17? Did you read the whole chapter in context?

Had that been done, you would see James is saying that Faith without fruits of Faith (i.e. "works") is a dead Faith... or a nonexistent or non-saving Faith.

Faith ALONE saves. Saving Faith GENERATES good works. They are the result of salvation, not the cause of it.

And since we're directing folks to verses, try these:
Ephesians 2:8-10
Romans 3:20
Romans 3:28
Titus 3:5

Context is your friend. Get to know him.

Hoss

13 posted on 06/15/2015 4:54:45 AM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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To: HossB86

But you quickly make the assumption that Catholics somehow believe they can ‘earn’ their way into heaven. I do not think that is the case. I have never seen such a point being proposed. Catholics merely point out that salvation can be lost if your faith does not bear fruit.

It’s time to release your holier-than-thou attitude and focus your attention on the non-Christians who need our prayers.


14 posted on 06/15/2015 5:05:45 AM PDT by beancounter13
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To: HossB86

-— Faith ALONE saves. Saving Faith GENERATES good works. They are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. -—

That’s pretty much the Catholic position. The trouble in this debate is that Catholics and Protestants use the same terms differently, so terms should be clearly defined.

Even the demons believe, and shudder. Faith and works are two sides of the same coin. Even a simple confession of faith is an action or work.

Faith without works is dead. A man is saved by what he does and not by faith alone.


15 posted on 06/15/2015 5:10:34 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: HossB86
Faith ALONE saves. Saving Faith GENERATES good works. They are the result of salvation, not the cause of it.

It is Catholic dogma that only a "saved" person (one in the state of grace) can perform works that are "good," in the sense that they are both objectively pleasing to God and able to add to the person's eventual glory in heaven. So, yes, that kind of work is definitely the result of salvation.

As to how one gets into that state of grace, it's also Catholic dogma that the only meritorious cause of anyone's salvation is the grace won by Christ on the Cross. The instrumental cause may be baptism, but don't confuse the wage earner (Christ) with the person who merely cashes the paycheck (the person being baptized).

But if saving faith always produces good works, then it's not "alone" any more, is it?

The whole argument over "faith alone" (at least the Protestant vs. Catholic argument; there are still groups that are full-blown believers in "works righteousness") is kind of silly unless we first define "faith".

If by "faith" you mean the kind of filial faith that says "I am yours, God, do with me what you will," or, as Mary put it, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord: let it be done to me according to your word" then of course that kind of faith, if lived out and not just a one-time sentiment, saves. But it won't be "alone," because by its nature, it submits to God in all things and does His will.

If by "faith" you mean just a really strong conviction that Christ saved me personally, as Luther seems to say, I'm not impressed. I don't think God is either. Really strong convictions of anything can just mean you're badly deceived. As Scripture says, "the human heart is deceitful above all things". (Jer 17:9)

Still worse is the "faith" that consists merely of doctrinal assent to a set of theological points. As Scripture says, "Even the demons believe, and tremble." Orthodoxy is a fine thing, but orthodoxy without love will get you to hell.

17 posted on 06/15/2015 5:28:02 AM PDT by Campion
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