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To: HossB86
Faith ALONE saves. Saving Faith GENERATES good works. They are the result of salvation, not the cause of it.

It is Catholic dogma that only a "saved" person (one in the state of grace) can perform works that are "good," in the sense that they are both objectively pleasing to God and able to add to the person's eventual glory in heaven. So, yes, that kind of work is definitely the result of salvation.

As to how one gets into that state of grace, it's also Catholic dogma that the only meritorious cause of anyone's salvation is the grace won by Christ on the Cross. The instrumental cause may be baptism, but don't confuse the wage earner (Christ) with the person who merely cashes the paycheck (the person being baptized).

But if saving faith always produces good works, then it's not "alone" any more, is it?

The whole argument over "faith alone" (at least the Protestant vs. Catholic argument; there are still groups that are full-blown believers in "works righteousness") is kind of silly unless we first define "faith".

If by "faith" you mean the kind of filial faith that says "I am yours, God, do with me what you will," or, as Mary put it, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord: let it be done to me according to your word" then of course that kind of faith, if lived out and not just a one-time sentiment, saves. But it won't be "alone," because by its nature, it submits to God in all things and does His will.

If by "faith" you mean just a really strong conviction that Christ saved me personally, as Luther seems to say, I'm not impressed. I don't think God is either. Really strong convictions of anything can just mean you're badly deceived. As Scripture says, "the human heart is deceitful above all things". (Jer 17:9)

Still worse is the "faith" that consists merely of doctrinal assent to a set of theological points. As Scripture says, "Even the demons believe, and tremble." Orthodoxy is a fine thing, but orthodoxy without love will get you to hell.

17 posted on 06/15/2015 5:28:02 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion
It is Catholic dogma....

It's God's inerrant Word that says:
" For by grace you have been saved athrough faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
Ephesians 2:8-10

Note where it says 'not as a result of works' -- and is that not Catholic dogma that salvation is by faith and works?

In Romans 4 we read:
"4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,"

So, since all of our works are as "filthy rags" it seems to me that those "wages" and our "due" won't be grace, but what we deserve: death. But, if we believe in Christ, our faith is counted as righteousness.

But, if Paul isn't good enough, how about Christ?:
'He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”'
Luke 18:9-14

So... all the Pharisee did -- not being like the others and tithing... doing works... got him what? It was the tax collector that went home justified; Christ said justified, not "kinda justified until he does some good works...." He went home justified why? Because he called on God to be merciful and believed.

Seems like scripture trumps dogma.

Hoss

23 posted on 06/15/2015 6:37:56 AM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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