Posted on 03/20/2015 6:18:32 PM PDT by RnMomof7
No does He need to be "offered" over and over.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
That’s because the people who want to call Mary “Mother of Jesus” instead of “Mother of God” historically did it to knock Jesus down a notch or two, from “God” to “not quite God, not really”.
Well, that’s fine, because we don’t offer him over and over, but only make that one offering, which is eternal in the heavenly holy of holies (Heb 9:24), present to us in time.
What utter nonsense. So Jesus is still dying on that cross "present to us in time"? No wonder the Catholic Church keeps Jesus on that cross and Jesus as a baby in Mary's arms. What utter blasphemy. Christ died "once for all". Not continually throughout all time.
No Rominists think He dies daily on their altars
The "mass" is "the self same" sacrifice as Calvary ...over and over and over..
"Hence the Mass, the Lord's Supper, is at the same time and inseparably: a sacrifice in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated (Vatican Council II, p. 102).
"Christ's own association of what he did at the Last Supper with what he was to do on Good Friday has been the Church's own norm for intimately relating the two. The sacrifice of the altar, then is no mere empty commemoration of Calvary, but a true and proper act of sacrifice, whereby Christ is the high priest by an unbloody immolation offers himself a most acceptable victim to the eternal Father, as he did on the cross. 'It is one and the same victim; the same person now offers it by the ministry of his priests, who then offered himself on the cross. Only the manner of offering is different.' ... Worth stressing is that what makes the Mass a sacrifice is that Christ is a living human being with a human will, still capable of offering (hence priest) and being offered (hence victim), no less truly today than occurred on the cross. (John Hardon, The Catholic Catechism, pp. 465-66) (cf. Heb. 10:12-18).
Scripture on the other hand says a single sacrifice good for all time.
Hebrews 10:12 But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God's right hand.
Not an ongoing sacrifice needing to be continually offered with Jesus still the victim.
I predict there will be exactly zero Catholics who address each of these quotes concerning Mary.
Good post.
HUH?
John 2:3-5
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Sneaky them bible writers are!!!
I would like to know who thinks IHS dies on Good Friday. It seems funny to have an article declaiming against an idea which nobody seems to have.
Consequently, they don't have a coherent idea of time, and they think "eternity" can only be an infinite extent of time. Not having an examined view of time, they make statements which THEY seem to think accurately represent Catholic thought. But since they fail even to be caricatures of, say, Scholastic Realism, there's -- as they say -- no "there there." There's nothing to grip.
So one is left wondering what the point was.
And not only that, but let's suppose that Catholics are tangled in some demon's web of philosophy. Is there no one in your fellowship who cares enough to UNDERSTAND our errors well enough, first, to state them in language we recognize and, second, to address them with something other than abuse and straw men?
Or is the call to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel obediently answered by incoherent and largely false denunciations of things the Catholic Church doesn't teach?
But this is similar. Is the idea that since we feelthy Papists are doomed anyway, you all might as well anticipate our eternal -- excuse me, I mean "infinitely long" -- suffering by afflicting us with abusive lies now before we die? If so, have at it, I suppose.
But what a funny way to spend one's time!
Okay. That contains an internal contradiction. Maybe.
It hinges on the meaning of "Self same." My contention is that it cannot BOTH be "self same" and "over and over and over."
For:
Consider the Port Jefferson to Jamaica train, the 7:04. In many respects, every day it is the same. It follows the same route at the same time. It might even have the same locomotive and passenger cars.
BUT, in one respect the trains are not "self same." THAT was the Monday 7:04. And THIS is the TUESDAY 7:04.
And that is what we do NOT think about the Mass. It cannot be "over and over and over." That would be the Monday 7:04 and then the Tuesday 7:04. That would be repetition -- the very thing both sides deprecate.
Our claim (and even Calvin understood this at least a little) is that the Mass is a LITTLE like a time machine. Or kinda like an elevator, maybe.
I am told that Calvin says that when we say "Lift up your hearts," we are "lifted" to heaven, where the one sacrifice is not repeated but is an eternal fact in the eternal present.
For us, the Mass is "out of time." So there can be no repetition, no "again." It's always the Monday 7:04, and never the Tuesday.
Another way to say it, not rigorously but to convey the idea, is this. God has no past or future. All times are Now to Him, and all places Here.
It is we in our created weakness who need the ONE truth spread over time. God is not so limited.
The problem is that those who disagree with us slip -- as we see it -- into thinking that God himself is subject to time. They don't mean it; they're not aware of it, but they seem to think that Chronos, not Jehovah, is TRULY Lord.
So the criticism of our teaching is based on idolatry! We, by contrast, think not that Jehovah is bound by time, but time is bound by Jehovah. For us, the Mass is one way the God shares his power over time with us. For you, that's impossible.
We're monotheists. We think The Holy One of Israel is truly Lord. Your arguments and objections suggest you think that Chronos is.
Ya break me UP
LOL!
The charge is rapidly blown away, like smoke.
So the subject is changed to another charge based on a misunderstanding. I address the misunderstanding and ... conversation stops.
What's the point?
24 posted on Saturday, March 21, 2015 6:22:19 AM by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
If your tagline kept going, it would probably end "...Jesus Christ, and him crucified"--not something like "...Jesus Christ, and him risen only," even though Paul knew perfectly well that Jesus wasn't still on the cross. All this is not to take any particular stance concerning the subject of your earlier discussion ("present to us in time"), but I always notice the missing words at the end of the tagline, and after some posts they're especially noticeable.
(Just a little earlier: "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.")
I tested something: although the available space for a tagline has disappointed me before, there is enough room to add those words. In this space, I can even either add quotation marks or write out "1 Corinthians," though not both. (Even so, "1 Cor." should suffice for a readership familiar enough with such abbreviations or at least savvy enough to check what it means. But if even I can recognize the verse, a citation shouldn't be strictly necessary.)
IHS is Jesus’ name. Not what you say it is at all.
The Holy Name of Jesus
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