Posted on 03/17/2015 9:25:29 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
[SNIP]
The 12 steps are so deeply ingrained in the United States that many people, including doctors and therapists, believe attending meetings, earning one’s sobriety chips, and never taking another sip of alcohol is the only way to get better. Hospitals, outpatient clinics, and rehab centers use the 12 steps as the basis for treatment. But although few people seem to realize it, there are alternatives, including prescription drugs and therapies that aim to help patients learn to drink in moderation. Unlike Alcoholics Anonymous, these methods are based on modern science and have been proved, in randomized, controlled studies, to work.
[SNIP]
The debate over the efficacy of 12-step programs has been quietly bubbling for decades among addiction specialists. But it has taken on new urgency with the passage of the Affordable Care Act, which requires all insurers and state Medicaid programs to pay for alcohol- and substance-abuse treatment, extending coverage to 32 million Americans who did not previously have it and providing a higher level of coverage for an additional 30 million.
Nowhere in the field of medicine is treatment less grounded in modern science. A 2012 report by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University compared the current state of addiction medicine to general medicine in the early 1900s, when quacks worked alongside graduates of leading medical schools. The American Medical Association estimates that out of nearly 1 million doctors in the United States, only 582 identify themselves as addiction specialists. (The Columbia report notes that there may be additional doctors who have a subspecialty in addiction.) Most treatment providers carry the credential of addiction counselor or substance-abuse counselor, for which many states require little more than a high-school diploma or a GED. Many counselors are in recovery themselves.
(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...
Actually and unfortunately the success rate for any program is relatively low. Best guesstimates are between 20-40%.
12 step programs are generally considered to be on the higher end of these estimates.
I’m not seeing a thesis presented in that statement other than a bit of snarky patonization of the people reacting negatively to the artcle.
I was simply stating some likely reasons justified or not.
My apologies for the lack of clarity-
When the family of the client complained about the client’s rude, selfish and sometimes downright bizarre behaviors-the client would say “well that is just my dry drunk behavior-this is a selfish program”. Understandably, that attitude was not well taken, and before long, not even tolerated.
It is often misinterpreted as a selfish program. In reality, the 12 steps are designed to defeat the selfishness and self-centeredness that plague the alcoholic.
To be sure, there's no shortage of bad advice at an AA meeting!
Boy did that guy have it wrong LOL.
Trying to excuse bad behavior by blaming it on your alcholism or conversely, your sobriety, is just about as misguided in interpretation and practice that one exhibit.
As I stated earlier “dry drunk” refers to someone who is presently not drinking but has not made the neccessary life changes that contributed to his abusing alcohol in the first place. Oftentimes these are self destructive behaviors and situations that promote addictive tendencies to play out.
As far as being “selfish”, that refers to putting a priority of sobriety above all else in ones life. Meaning that without sobriety we will likely lose all else ie. family, career, life. This guy was using it as an excuse to be a jerk.
Saying "No more than claiming the success of The Latter Day Saints shows their Christian orthodoxy" IS denying its success.
YOU misunderstand...I was patronizing you.
No, you misunderstand - I WASN'T patronizing you.
Thank you. I wondered when someone would point out the obvious “flaw” with AA.
This was bad advice all right-and most of the complaints from families involved just ONE of the five AA meeting places in that city-the smoke definitely led to a source of combustion. Several comp insurance carriers signed a letter, along with the company I worked for to the local main office of AA-and received a convoluted reply that my boss called pin the tail on the client obfuscation. We agreed with those insurance providers not to make referrals to AA/NA or any other affiliates, but only to professional therapists-where accountability could be demanded-or lose our comp contracts. We complied-problem solved.
It wasn’t so much that her personality changed, but that she spend all of her time going to meeting, working district functions, sponsoring new people and helping those who relapsed. It became her new life. She was not there as a mother when she was drunk and she was not there when she was consumed with AA. I likened it to replacing one addiction with another and the family came in second.
BINGO. This article is another in the continual drumbeat to remove religion as a part of American life.
If they could get rid of guns and religion, the statists could control the peasants, and wholesale murder the ones that don't go along with the program.
As part of our continuing ed requirement one year, my supervisor and I took a class called “Cults in America” and we chose to attend/audit several AA and MA meetings, since it was one of the orgs on the list of those cult or cult like.
All I could think of was a quote I heard once on a Garner Ted Armstrong radio show-”when the blind lead the blind, they both fall in the ditch”-it did not appear to me that anyone there was doing anything positive for recovery from anything, just people standing up and telling things better said in private to a therapist while listeners were getting off on the details, and it was cringeworthy to watch.
A couple of male “sponsors” were hitting on younger women-when my boss asked one of them about that, he smiled and said those were his “pigeons”-seriously. I later was told that is called “13th stepping”. There did not appear to be any professional standards of behavior or confidentiality observed whatsoever.
I’m sorry to say my professional and personal opinion of AA as a preferred therapy for addiction/substance abuse has not changed over the years since.
Humbug.
This is what the Atlantic does lately. The take some outrageous or offensive or extreme position and use it to generate Internet traffic and controversy: The End of Men, White People Are Through; Why Google Makes Us Stupid; Why Facebook Makes Us Lonely; The Case Against Breastfeeding; Did Christianity Cause the Crash; Why Obama Matters; Why Obama is Right; Why John Kerry Could Be Our Greatest Secretary of State; Joe Biden: The Most Influential Vice President In History; Joe Biden Is Really Smart.
It's stupid, shameless, and transparent.
Addiction and cults do seem somewhat related. The first thing that comes to mind is Narconon and $cientology.
“one addiction with another and the family came in second.”
Bingo-that is what a cult does, too, according to a textbook I had for a course about cults. One of my friends actually had an extension to the AA meeting place installed in his home and answered it when he is not at the AA meeting place-might still do that for all I know-no surprise 4 wives have gotten the hell out of there within 1-2 years...
He offered to pay me the going rate a few years ago for counseling him on his relationship failure-I’ve got the credentials, and needed the money badly, but he would not like my honesty, and I really didn’t want to listen to him whine so I declined-never regretted it, either...
My husband has been sober almost 4 years and AA is a big part of that. But even more important is the giving over of your life to God which is the essence of AA. Nothing works without putting God first.
My wife used to work at a church based day care that, at night, hosted AA meetings. When we had board meetings for the school, there would be overlap.
While we were leaving one night, a bunch of AA’ers were hanging around outside, on a break or something. To a person, each and every one, had an obvious addiction besides alcohol.
There was a group of smokers talking, a group of obese people talking (and eating or drinking sodas) and then there was a group that my wife didn’t get at first which I found hilarious. When she inquired as to their addiction, I whispered in her ear...
“Sex”
Yep, it wasn’t so obvious with the men, but the ladies were all dress provocatively and their body language was definitely...inviting.
I came to the conclusion that night that some people just have addictive personalities and they might beat one addiction down, but they eventually substitute it with another.
MY goodness, I have attended many and I mean MANY meetings and have never experienced anything remotely like what you have described.
I suppose like anything that involves people invariably there will be some bad apples.
Fortunately for me the meetings have been universally helpful, genuinely sympathetic, supportive, totally non-judgemental,and absolutely anonymous.
There are no “leaders” in the program but occasionally you’ll get someone who tries to assert themselves into some sort of dictatorial position. That is quickly shot down by the group.
I really don’t quite understand what’s in the minds of the employers or thew families of people going to AA meetings. It’s nothing more than a support group to help people get and stay sober. There are no expectations promises, or guarantees. AA simply provides the tools to an alcoholic or addict to utilize that they might long live a satisfying sober existence.
The members are not thrapists, counselers or MDs and in no way attempt to play one on TV. We are simply a group of people that discuss our problems, our successes, our life experiences before and after alcohol. We learn from others indirectly....take what we hear from others that makes sense for us and discard the rest.
The alcoholic is responsible for his/her OWN recovery. AA simply offers direction toward positive behavior alternatives to make the chance of success a bit more likely.
I was referring to the discussion it would prompt. I didn’t think much of the article either.
We have a couple in our group. He’s an ex Marine and a tough loveable old Jarhead. Just gave him his 38 yr CHIP last Friday. His wife will be getting a 35 yr CHIP in May.
They met in AA some 30+ years ago. Nice story.
Of course there will be bad apples. I knew an AA member who remarked that a horse thief can gain sobriety through AA but then he is just a sober horse thief.
There are no “leaders”, but there are respected elders who have been at the club who have 30-40 years of sobriety and are defacto leaders.
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