Posted on 02/20/2015 5:12:19 AM PST by Gamecock
ping
Great post! Thanks Game!
Hoss
Amen! Here’s another passage that impacts this subject:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
In context, I think here Christ was primarily condemning false prophets, those who call God a liar, who claim He didn’t say something He said, and He said something He didn’t say. Such people obviously are not doing the will of God.
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
I see that as people who are depending on their works, which, yes, would include false prophets.
But I think that it’s applicable to all who appeal to the good things they did.
It brings to mind the account of the pharisee and tax collector praying outside the Temple.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all.
I take that as people who are trying to work their way into Heaven, though their own good works. Note not one of them claims to have had faith. Instead they all say “Didn’t I...”
I’d like to hear your opinions about ‘sprinkling’ vs ‘submersion’.
Wasn’t Jesus totally submerged?
Thanks for the ping and thanks for posting he article Gamecock. It’s sad to think of all those who thought that works is what was important.
Matthew 3:13-17
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Does the Bible say submerged? Up from the water can certainly be coming back up the river bank. Or maybe not.
And if we want to go down this trail, Jesus was baptized in the River Jordan. Does any other body of water count? The baptism tank? Any other lake or River? Or only the Jordan?
Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Christ used the word “baptizo” meaning “to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.”
Understood. In verses 15-20 Christ spent a lot of time condemning false prophets. That’s why it appears to me that false prophets are still His primary focus in verses 21-23, specifically mentioning them yet again. But you’re right that He overall condemns a “works-based” profession of faith.
Interestingly, too, from verse 21, from a Doctrines of Grace perspective “poieo” (doeth) can also be translated “be,” and “thelema” (will) can also be translated “choice.” That would put a whole other complexion on the passage.
Is there some sort of olympic trials going on on this forum? Because, you, like others, have posted yet another message from a ‘high hurdler’.
All of that talk about regeneration, yet no instruction about HOW to be regenerated.......except for the usual hurdling of Acts, and going directly to the epistles; letters written to those that were already born again, or at least knew how to be.
The writer clearly is an Ahimaaz messenger: He knows a lot, but hasn’t ‘been there’, so he has nothing to tell about the HOW one is born again.
I will do my best to ask him, as I ask those here: Acts 2:38, is it from heaven, or of men?
The bible states here that one must be born again to have eternal salvation. Thus, all Christians are “born again” Christians. The book of Revelation also tells us that although we all die, those who die in their sins will suffer the “second death” which means being condemned to eternal damnation. Thus the formula is: If your born twice you die once. If your born once you die twice.
All your reformation is naught in the sight of God. You have shut the door, but the thief is still in the house
**All of that talk about regeneration, yet no instruction about HOW to be regenerated.......***
Jesus said: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. (John 3)
John 3:5 specifically states that it requires water AND the Holy Ghost to enter the Kingdom of God.
It does not say just the Holy Ghost, it says BOTH. The literal meaning of the scripture requires actual water.
Both - not one or the other (just the spirit or just the water)
It is really very straightforward and once again it is the Catholics who go by the literal meaning of both requirements of the passage.
That’s a great start. For John 3 is the Lord’s intro to us concerning rebirth. He commissions it to be preached in Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; and John 20:23. They were assigned their part; He would do his part (send the Holy Ghost). The apostles fulfill that commission, beginning with Peter in Acts 2:38.
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