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What About Israel?...Romans 9-11 pt 1
https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/what-about-israel-romans-9-11-pt-1/ ^ | 02-02-15 | Bill Randles

Posted on 02/02/2015 4:41:37 PM PST by pastorbillrandles

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.(Romans 9:1-5)

The epistle to the Romans is often said to be the perfect rendering of the gospel, because the epistle wasn’t written to correct a specific heresy as many of the others were. I have always believed this to be true and have stated it many times, but now I have been shown that I was wrong on that point.

Romans is indeed the best and most complete rendering of the workings of the gospel that I know of in scripture. But the epistle was written to address an error that had crept into the church in Rome, and which would eventually make its way into almost all of the churches.

That error is called “Replacement Theology”, the false teaching that the church of Jesus Christ is the new Israel of God, and that other than coming into the church as individuals, God has no ultimate plan for the physical children of Israel.

In New Testament history, the Roman church underwent several phases. The church can be traced back to Pentecost itself, when Romans were among the Jewish pilgrims in Jerusalem, who heard Peter preach the gospel. The earliest Roman church was almost entirely Jewish, ask virtually all other churches were.

As the revelation came to the apostles, that Gentiles could have a share in the gospel of eternal life, the Roman church began to convert and disciple Gentiles. Thus the second phase of the Roman church was Jewish, with Gentile converts.

Then in 49 AD, Claudius the Emperor expelled all Jews from Rome, which would include the Messianic Jews as well as the others. The book of Acts makes mention of this as well as the Roman historian Seutonius,

After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.(Acts 18:1-2)

Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome. (Seutonius)

Notice that the secular record of the expulsion of the Jews by Claudius, came because of the instigation over a figure named “Chrestus”. Could this be a corruption of the name Christ?

Thus the third phase of the Roman Church would be as an entirely gentile congregation. The church thrived, reaching hundreds of former pagans. Its development in those years, was Gentile. An explanation developed as to why the Jews were absented, which became the heresy.

Five years later, the new Emperor Nero allowed for the Jews to return to Rome. This began the fourth phase of the Roman church, which by then was predominantly Gentile with a smattering of returned Jews.

Paul had to write this letter to teach the predominantly Gentile Roman church the place of Israel in the heart of God, and in the church. He took 8 chapters to make the case that the gospel is equally applicable to Gentile and Jew, setting up the three chapters which teach the true place of Israel.

Replacement theology in the church eventually leads to the unthinkable, anti-Semitism. The very things Paul warned us of in Romans 9-11 are happening to the church today.

Consider that the once evangelical Presbyterian Church (USA) has been meeting with “Palestinian” Christians to rewrite the Bible, removing references to Israel and the Jews! This madness is the end of a long process of denominational denunciations of Israel, divestment campaigns, and boycotts.

One heresy leads to another, for evil has a tendency to snowball and compound.

Consider that the Roman Church which began almost entirely Jewish in outlook and leadership, morphed into the oftentimes antisemitic church of the Popes, indulgences, and of countless other abominations over the centuries, primarily field by the belief that the church is the new Israel and that God is through with the Jews as a people.

Remember that it was Roman Catholicism which first forced Jews in Europe into Ghettos and made them wear yellow stars to identify them as Jews.

By contrast behold the heart of Paul, “the apostle to the gentiles” for His own natural people, Israel. His greatest prayer and desire for the Jews was that they might be saved. He is speaking by the Holy spirit, and there is no hyperbole here; Paul is constantly burdened for their salvation, and if he could, he would gladly be accursed in their place.

Two others have said the same thing and meant it, Moses and Jesus. At the height of the golden calf incident, when Israel proved herself so faithless, Moses plead for them, that He might be “blotted out of God’s book” of life in their place.

But only Jesus could truly offer himself as a substitute for Israel, and he has done so, being accursed for God, for their sake that Israel might be saved. The Father and the Son love Israel, and still have a plan for her. Only by seeing this and acknowledging it, can one even begin to know what is happening these days .

This is why we must go through Romans 9-10-11.


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: israel; israelchurch; palestinian; presbyterian; replacement; replacementtheology; romans91011
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To: impactplayer; aMorePerfectUnion
>>there cannot be two “covenants” working at the same time.<<

And there isn't.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Once that full number of the Gentiles has happened this age of grace will end. That's when the last seven years promised to Israel will begin.

21 posted on 02/03/2015 5:11:52 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: caww

I had those same discussions with family members. Solid Christians all but totally oblivious when it came to prophesy.


22 posted on 02/03/2015 5:14:36 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: impactplayer
We are Israel in a New Covenant - the old has past away.

We are the Bride of Christ in the new covenant.

Israel is still Israel and will be restored someday.

23 posted on 02/03/2015 5:27:02 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: impactplayer

God has a covenant with Israel. We share some of the benefits. Romans and all the covenants God gave to the patriarchs are yet to be completed. They will be. That takes nothing from the glorious blessings we share .


24 posted on 02/03/2015 6:24:21 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "Forward lies the crown, and onward is the goal.")
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

“God has a covenant with Israel.” - Yes,and we have been grafted into it. There is only one covenant in effect today, the Covenant with Moses was fulfilled (completed) under Christ. It ended when he shouted, “It is Finished”, breathed his last, and the curtain was torn from top to bottom. Those still living under the law will die under the law. Those living in Christ will never die. The time for salvation is NOW!


25 posted on 02/03/2015 6:39:25 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer

We are the Israel of the New Covenant - the Old Covenant will never return!


Right, the new covenant was made with the house of Israel, not with the Gentiles, they were grafted in.

Jeremiah
31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

But this did not eliminate the land of Israel, it is still there two thousand years after the covenant was made.


26 posted on 02/03/2015 6:56:37 AM PST by ravenwolf (s letters scripture.)
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To: impactplayer
Indeed! I rejoice in the fact that, though I'm a Gentile in the flesh, I have been made an heir of and have received the promises made to Israel. As Paul says, "it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God":

"For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed." - Romans 9:6-8

Those who await some future "restoration of Israel", looking for it in the fleshly descendants of Abraham, are misinformed. Those who have read Romans understand that the true children of Abraham are those who have the faith of Abraham.

In Paul's day as well as ours, that excludes many fleshly Israelites, since they refuse to confess Jesus as Lord. But if they will be provoked to jealousy by God's acceptance of Gentiles, and will return to Him, they will be grafted back into the promises:

"And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again." - Romans 11:23
27 posted on 02/03/2015 6:58:06 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: impactplayer

“God has a covenant with Israel.” - Yes,and we have been grafted into it.

I suggest that you reread the whole chapter of Romans 11. Then go read the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant. Then come back to talk.

For now, please set aside the Law from Moses.


28 posted on 02/03/2015 7:07:17 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "Forward lies the crown, and onward is the goal.")
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To: pastorbillrandles
Yes, but I am reffering to the history of the Roman church-there were Roman Jews at Pentecost...

Pastor Bill, cannot Acts 2:10 be read as ". . . Roman residents, both Jews and proselytes . . ." speaking Latin, or must "proselytes" (proselytes to the Jewish faith, of course) be distributed across the entire group of 120 newly Spirit-filled speakers of foreign languages?

29 posted on 02/03/2015 8:24:19 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: metmom
Yes, mm, I believe that is correct. The Body of Christ, is a new creature as of Pentecost:

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of
commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself
of twain one new (hu)man, so making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: . . ." (Ephesians 2:15-16 AV).

ενα καινον ανθρωπον hayna kynon anthropon = one new human; adjective adjective noun in the accusative case, masculine representing males and females, Jews and Greeks together

30 posted on 02/03/2015 8:44:02 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

“In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” Hebrews 8:13
There are not two covenants, but one. “Drink of it, all of you; for this is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” Matt. 26:28-29

This, of course, was spoken to Jews. There is only one sacrifice, only one covenant, and only one Savior. And we have been grafted into it. Praise be to God!


31 posted on 02/03/2015 8:49:18 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: ravenwolf
Right, the new covenant was made with the house of Israel, not with the Gentiles, they were grafted in.

Grafted into the Vine, reborn into the covenant. Figures of speech have their limits.

32 posted on 02/03/2015 9:13:06 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: impactplayer

When did God make a new covenant?
Did he make it to Israel or to the gentiles?


33 posted on 02/03/2015 10:15:23 AM PST by winodog (hang on tight to Gods salvation)
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To: winodog

Never mind. I see your answer already


34 posted on 02/03/2015 10:24:16 AM PST by winodog (hang on tight to Gods salvation)
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To: winodog

He made it with His disciples - all Jews: “Drink of it, all of you: for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” Matt. 26: 28-29.

This was foretold by Jeremiah as reference in Hebrews 8:8:
“The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: . . . This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. . . . In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”

So the new covenant is with Israel, and we have been grafted into it - Praise the Lord!


35 posted on 02/03/2015 10:34:31 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer

impactplayer,
It doesn’t appear you are open to learning anything, but instead desirous of repeating what you’ve already said.
God has His time for everything under the sun.

“When the student is willing, the teacher appears.”

Best to you.


36 posted on 02/03/2015 11:01:34 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion ( "Forward lies the crown, and onward is the goal.")
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

We ALL need to keep an open mind - open to new revelation - new ideas. It helps keep us young.

God Bless!


37 posted on 02/03/2015 11:55:03 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: pastorbillrandles
That fact that God STILL has plans for Israel is unavoidable and gets proved almost on a daily basis. That this tiny nation and her people still exist after countless attempts to annihilate all memory of them is extraordinary. No, God is definitely NOT done with Israel!
38 posted on 02/03/2015 2:08:49 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Elsie
Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also will cease From being a nation before Me forever." Thus says the LORD, "If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done," declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
39 posted on 02/03/2015 2:14:02 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Sounds like they have tenure!! ;^)


40 posted on 02/03/2015 2:49:07 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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