Posted on 02/01/2015 2:15:28 PM PST by Morgana
Have you been born again, my friend? Thousands of Catholics have been asked this question by well-meaning Fundamentalists or Evangelicals. Of course, by born again the Protestant usually means: Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior through the recitation of the sinners prayer? How is a Catholic to respond?
The simple Catholic response is: Yes, I have been born againwhen I was baptized. In fact, Jesus famous born again discourse of John 3:3-5, which is where we find the words born again in Scripture, teaches us about the essential nature of baptism:
Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicode'mus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
At this point, a Fundamentalist or Evangelical will respond almost predictably: Baptism does not save you, brother; John 3:5 says we must be born of water and the Spirit. The Catholic will then be told the water of John 3:5 has nothing to do with baptism. Depending on the preference of the one to whom the Catholic is speaking, the water will either be interpreted as mans natural birth (the water being amniotic fluid), and the Spirit would then represent the new birth, or the water would represent the word of God through which one is born again when he accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior.
Amniotic Fluid vs. Baptismal Water
To claim the water of John 3:5 is amniotic fluid is to stretch the context just a smidgen! When we consider the actual words and surrounding context of John 3, the waters of baptism seem to be the more reasonableand biblicalinterpretation. Consider these surrounding texts:
John 1:31-34: Jesus was baptized. If you compare the parallel passage in St. Matthews gospel (3:16), you find that when Jesus was baptized, the heavens were opened and the Spirit descended upon him. Obviously, this was not because Jesus needed to be baptized. In fact, St. John the Baptist noted that he needed to be baptized by Jesus (see Matthew 3:14)! Jesus was baptized in order fulfill all righteousness and to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins, according to Scripture (cf. Matt. 3:15; Luke 1:77). In other words, Jesus demonstrably showed us the way the heavens would be opened to us so that the Holy Spirit would descend upon us through baptism.
John 2:1-11: Jesus performed his first miracle. He transformed water into wine. Notice, Jesus used water from six stone jars for the Jewish rites of purification. According to the Septuagint as well as the New Testament these purification waters were called baptismoi (see LXX, Numbers 19:9-19; cf. Mark 7:4). We know that Old Testament rites, sacrifices, etc. were only a shadow of the good things to come (Hebrews 10:1). They could never take away sins. This may well be why six stone jars are specified by St. Johnto denote imperfection, or a human number (cf. Rev. 13:18). It is interesting to note that Jesus transformed these Old Testament baptismal waters into winea symbol of New Covenant perfection (see Joel 3:18; Matthew 9:17).
John 3:22: Immediately after Jesus born again discourse to Nicodemus, what does He do? "... Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized." It appears he baptized folks. This is the only time in Scripture we find Jesus apparently actually baptizing.
John 4:1-2: Jesus disciples then begin to baptize at Jesus command. It appears from the text, Jesus most likely only baptized his disciples and then they baptized everyone else.
In summary, Jesus was baptized, transformed the baptismal waters, and then gave his famous born again discourse. He then baptized before commissioning the apostles to go out and baptize. To deny Jesus was teaching us about baptism in John 3:3-5 is to ignore the clear biblical context.
Moreover, John 3:5 is not describing two events; it describes one event. The text does not say unless one is born of water and then born again of the Spirit... It says unless one is born of water and Spirit... If we hearken back to the Lords own baptism in John 1 and Matt. 3, we notice when our Lord was baptized the Holy Spirit descended simultaneously upon him. This was one event, involving both water and the Spirit. And so it is with our baptism. If we obey God in being baptizedthats our part of the dealwe can count on God to concurrently open the heavens for us and give us the Holy Spirit.
And finally, it would be anachronistic to read into Jesus use of water to mean physical birth in Johns gospel. In fact, St. John had just used a word to refer to physical birth in John 1:12-13, but it wasnt water:
But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
St. John here tells us we are not made children of God by birth (of blood), or by our own attempts whether they be through our lower nature (of the flesh) or even through the higher powers of our soul (the will of man); rather, we must be born of God, or by Gods power. Notice, St. John refers to natural birth colloquially as of blood, not of water.
Washing of Water by the Word
It is perhaps an even greater stretch to attempt to claim the water of John 3:3-5 represents the word of God. At least with the amniotic fluid argument, you have mention of birth in the immediate context. However, the Protestant will sometimes refer to Ephesians 5:25-26 and a few other texts to make this point:
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word
See? a Protestant may say, The washing of water is here equated to the word that cleanses us. If you couple this text with Jesus words in John 15:3, You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you, the claim is made, that the water of John 3:5 would actually refer to the word of God rather than baptism.
The Catholic Response
Beyond the obvious fact that there is nothing in the context of John's gospel to even remotely point to "water" as referring to "the word," we can point out immediately a point of agreement. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that Jesus wordsunless one is born anew (or, again)speak of mans initial entrance into the body of Christ through Gods grace. Perhaps it would be helpful at this point to ask what the New Testament writers saw as the instrument whereby one first enters into Christ. This would be precisely what we are talking about when we speak of being born again.
I Peter 3:20-21: ... in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:3-4: "Are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life."
Galatians 3:27: "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
I Cor. 12:13: "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one bodyJews or Greeks, slaves or freeand all were made to drink of one Spirit (See also Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16 and Col. 2:11-13).
If baptism is the way the unsaved are brought into Christ, no wonder Christ spoke of being born of water and spirit. Baptism is the instrument of new birth according to the New Testament.
John 3
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Thought I would share this from Rose Publishing:
The Bible clearly speaks of: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. But emphasizes that there is only ONE God.
If we were to use math, it would not be, 1+1+1=3. It would be 1x1x1=1. God is a triune God.Thus the term: “Tri” meaning three, and “Unity” meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three “Persons” who have the same essence of deity.
God the Father is fully, completely God.
God the Son (Jesus) is fully, completely God.
And God the Holy Spirit is fully, completely God.
YET THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
From the beginning we see God this way in Scripture. Notice the plural pronouns “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26 — Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
the Insanety of these arguments is,,,
Well,
INSANE !
That's a strange assertion. Of course I believe Jesus when he says we must be born of water and spirit. Which is precisely why the examples I quoted in Acts on this thread reinforce the command of water baptism.
So many people choose to ignore the COMMAND to be baptized.
I find it odd that folks think they can pick and choose what commands to obey.
Your examples were of just water. No spirit, but I’ll go back and read them again.
Thanks Maud,
let Me share,
You don’t Have a soul,
You Are a Soul,
You Have a Body.
C.S. Lewis
**This sounds like a red flag to me. If this man is cabable of refusing some poor soul a prayer for salvation and even lying to her, what else could he be capable of?? He might be capable of causing someone else even more pain or doing some other type of serious damage to the church/congregation. **
He is probably to answer for the loss of her soul should she die.
OK, the quotes from Acts do include the Spirit. My mistake.
Catholics have to keep getting "born again" in confession and communion ...but in spite of all those "born again" claims..they still need to do "burn time "
Pathetic "good news" for Roman Catholics .. work as hard as you can..be as good as you can be..follow all the church rules...and maybe ..if you are REAL GOOD.. you might make it to temporary burn time
That's because John only watered with water (water means baptism, doesn't it?) and not with the Holy Ghost...Only Jesus can baptize with the Holy Ghost...
Baptism of the Holy Ghost only comes with Repentance, not water...
With respect, the thief on the cross next to Jesus was not baptized...
Received this in an e-mail today. . . we all could learn from the children. http://nolongeraslumdog.org/the-power-of-the-meek/
Don't confuse them :)
Oh, yes he was. He received a Baptism of Desire or a Baptism of Blood.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Romans 10:9-13 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vainif indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith just as Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, In you shall all the nations be blessed. So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them. Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for The righteous shall live by faith. But the law is not of faith, rather The one who does them shall live by them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for usfor it is written, Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, And to offsprings, referring to many, but referring to one, And to your offspring, who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
No law or works of any law saves anyone.
Circumcision never saved anyone. Water baptism, which is some church's counterpart to circumcision, does not save anyone.
Righteousness comes through faith, not performing, or having performed on you without your consent, any religious ritual.
Romans 3:20-30 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to itthe righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is onewho will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
If the works of the Law that God Himself gave to the world could not save someone, then no works that man sets up in its stead can save someone.
If baptism were required, Jesus would have been much more explicit about the necessity of it.
Claiming that being born of the water equates to baptism doesn't work either.
Jesus knew the word for baptism and did not use in in John 3 when He was talking about being born again.
If baptism is required for salvation, then Jesus' death on the cross was not enough and He lied when He said *It is finished*.
I'm not going to tell Jesus that His death wasn't good enough and I had to add something to it to get myself saved.
yea ..that and good works and keeping the commandments as well as one can and keeping the church laws and doing good works gives Rominists a shot at a little clean up time in the fires of purgatory to earn them the right to be saved.. some grace and mercy in that ...LOL
Then water baptism is not necessary.
And besides, Catholics keep telling us there's only ONE baptism.
Which is it? One or many?
“And John testified, I watched the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He rested on Him. 33 I didnt know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water told me, The One you see the Spirit descending and resting onHe is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. 34 I have seen and testified that He is the Son of God!
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one bodywhether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or freeand we were all made to drink of one Spirit. “
Just another false doctrine developed to prop up their house, um, religion of cards.
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