Posted on 01/16/2015 8:03:35 AM PST by Salvation
He'd probably get zotted. Not for having inprecise language, but for calling for a welfare state and telling Freepers to give up their 2nd amendment rights.
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>> “Chapter 2 tells us how it used to be and chapter 3 tells us how it now is.” <<
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Absolute nonsense!
There is no contradiction, there is complete union.
The contradiction is in the mind of the Godless man, trying to build salvation out of humanist rejection of the things of God.
Well then this is purely orthodox, if I am understanding it correctly, and represents no contradiction to anything I wrote, and I disagree with nothing in it. Neither would Long Colt. We all agree that good works is the fruit of living faith. Yet you still disagreed with what I wrote and were arguing with him (I did not look at the larger exchange between you and him, however)? Instead of just responding as you have done, be specific. Quote what I wrote and what you have a problem with, otherwise it would lead me to believe that you are not as orthodox as you seem to be.
“That would destroy Catholicism.”
And every one who hates Catholicism would raise a big cheer. And still persist in calling themselves Christians... Until the various interpreters began to argue amongst themselves. I wonder which belief would be the object of hatred then?
Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
>>And still persist in calling themselves Christians...<<
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
We follow what the apostles teach. Catholics teach things the apostles didn't and we are told by Paul to consider them accursed.
It would be if those who vehemently hate Catholicism would form their own Catholic-Bashing Caucus. We could discuss civilly with our other non-Catholic Christan brethren who actually would like to dialogue... I'd like to hear their point of view. Even though we may disagree, we could still speak to one another as polite adults!
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Yet the Catholic church claims other things are necessary for salvation, that aren't included in John's Gospel. Don't Catholics believe John?
I understand that you might be upset by the article. But that does not make me or other Catholics hypocrites.
LOL. must be part of the Bible that isn't read at Mass. That was hilarious and sad at the same time.
LOL why would I say that?
Toward a Theological Ethic for Internet Discourse
What You Get Is What You See
Well then this is purely orthodox, if I am understanding it correctly, and represents no contradiction to anything I wrote, and I disagree with nothing in it. Neither would Long Colt.
Exactly. Long Colt agrees.
No, it was his statement “You hypocrites.”
How can he judge? How can he mind read?
Remember Luther added the word "alone" to the word "faith" in verses.
"Not every one that saith to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of My Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 7:21
"But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God. Who will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation." Romans 2:5-8
"For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil." 2 Corinthians 5:10
"Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works." 2 Corinthians 11:15
"You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace. For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity." Galatians 5:4-6
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Not of works, that no man may glory. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10
"Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to His good will." Philippians 2:12-13
"Knowing that you shall receive of the Lord the reward of inheritance. Serve ye the Lord Christ. For he that doth wrong, shall receive for that which he hath done wrongfully: and there is no respect of persons with God." Colossians 3:24-25
"What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?" James 2:14
"So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself." James 2:17
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20
"Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" James 2:24
"For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." James 2:26
"And if you invoke as Father Him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one's work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here." 1 Peter 1:17
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works." Apocalypse 20:12-13
"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16
Consider...both Saul and David did good and bad. But David's works came from a heart renewed by God. That is the difference.
Works done according to the will of God come from a heart of faith.
It’s the Gospel.
I guess I haven’t had the separatedness of being raised as a Christian that Msgr Pope sees.
1. I’ve thought about faith vs works and decided that they are linked, we get our salvation from our belief in and acceptance of Jesus as our Savior, we fulfill that faith by how we live our lives and what we do, which ends up being works, but the two are linked.
2. Grace: I’m not really understanding him here. I see our salvation as a Grace from God alone and His gift to us. But it is also because we seek it in accepting His Son’s message.
3. Scripture alone: reading a Bible without a dictionary or accompanying commentary, either written or from another believer makes getting a full understanding quite difficult. the ‘sola scriptura’ is based from a society that was already centered and steeped in Christianity, thus a basis was formed that gave amplification to God’s word. to pick up a bible with NO knowledge of Christianity may lead to accepting Jesus’s message of salvation, but it will be more difficult than for one of us today and may even be impossible without God’s intervention for understanding with that person. Thus I partly disagree with Msgr Pope on this, but also disagree with those who say that one ONLY needs scripture without any other writings or input on it.
Once again, Msgr Pope has provided a good meditation piece and is fulfilling his mission as a priest of sharing God’s word with all of us who have been lead to Him by His Son.
See my post #96
In the light of ‘civil dialogue’ See my post # 96, :-)
Let me expand on part of what I posted “...being raised as a Christian....”
I was raised and am a Protestant, member of “Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)” denomination. One of the concepts I was taught was the unity of all Christians under Jesus, whether they be Protestant or Catholic (no matter which individual denomination or rite). I believe that we, as followers of Jesus, should seek what unites us in our believe and gift of salvation and NOT the differences we have.
Oh, yes, I spent my undergraduate years attending and graduating from a Catholic men’s college and also taught in a Catholic elementary school.
I think the arguments against Sola Scripture tend to be warped. Because really those that rely on Scripture are saying that the apostles and the prophets have the highest authority. Everything gets compared to that.
It’s not that we need nothing else. But that which contradicts scripture is not to be trusted.
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