Posted on 01/16/2015 8:03:35 AM PST by Salvation
I think it is unwise to build doctrines on what is NOT in the Bible. That is far too subjective. Anyone could say, well it is not in the Bible, but I know it is true. That won't cut the mustard. (John 20:31)
Not positive, but the Philippines is a catholic country, and one of the most superstitious I have ever been to.
I have no intention of waiting that long.
Thank you.
You only have to ‘wait’ until you die.
If you lived in respect of his grace, and love for his sheep, you’re in the ‘no worries’ club.
On the other hand, if you’ve lived in denial of his Torah, insisting that it had to be what was “hung on the cross,” Paul’s “fear and trembling” comes to mind.
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Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
The Greek word there is ἐστε meaning "I exist". It already exists and is a done deal.
There are many other verses that say the same thing and you have been shown them. Yet you continue to deny and post erroneous statements to the contrary.
Yes, some of us have been saved.
Some of us have already stood before the Supreme Court in Heaven.
Some of us have a regenerated human spirit with definite spiritual gifts to glorify Him.
When we suffer the first death, we will also be present with Him.
It isn’t just academics. He’s a Living God.
96 2. Grace: At Baptism we receive Sanctifying Grace which removes the original sin from our souls.
from http://disciples.org/our-identity/communion-and-baptism/ which, to me is a variation of the Catholic belief/doctrinne you posted.
Peter said to them,” Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:38 (NRSV)
“Just as the baptism represents the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, it symbolizes the death and burial of the old self of the repentant believer, and the joyous birth of a brand new being in Christ. Those who founded the Disciples movement taught baptism by immersion as the accepted form. From “Word to the Church on Baptism,” Commission on Theology, 1987”
“Baptism is a public act by which the church proclaims God’s grace, as revealed in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, through the use of a visible sign of God’s gracious initiative and the human individual’s response in faith. With other Christians we affirm that baptism is at once a divine gift and a human response…”
“The meaning of baptism is grounded in God’s redemptive action in Christ, it incorporates the believer in the community in the body of Christ, and it anticipates life in the coming age when the powers of the old world will be overcome, and the purposes of God will triumph.”
Thus to me, we receive grace and forgiveness through our baptism, which is followed by the first reception of communion.
Blessings to you.
Wrong.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for (εἰς) the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
The Greek word εἰς is a Preposition not a verb. There is no action taking place. Baptism is an outward proclamation of an already occurred forgiveness.
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>> “Yes, some of us have been saved.”
>> “some of us have already stood before the Supreme Court in Heaven.”
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Totally contrary to scripture.
Revelation 20 shows us that it is only those that are raised at the First Resurrection are blessed, and not subject to the Second Death, which happens 1000 years later at the Great White Throne.
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Now there is an evil twisting of the words of scripture. (not blaming you personally) Let's look at the real thing.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for (εἰς) the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the second time today the Greek word εἰς is a preposition and not a verb.
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Sorry CB, but the “have been” is not in scripture.
“By grace are ye saved...”
That is the trouble with using Hort-Wescott based modern ‘Bibles.’ Too much has been changed to deceive those that seek a wider path than Yeshua has provided.
That is why he said “Few” would find it. If you convince yourself that the wider path will suffice, you’re on shaky ground.
Salvation occurs for all at the same event; until then its sleep in the bosom of Abraham.
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C-B, I don’t know ancient Greek. I go with the translations as posted under the assumption they are correct. I’ll consider your alternate translation.
Special days of the sun God?
Like christmas and easter? that send us to hellfire?
His feasts are his education program for our benefit. They are the necessary shadow outlines of what is yet to come, on the very days upon which they will come.
This is why all of the early believers kept his feasts. AS Paul told the Thessalonians, they are the reason why he would not come as a thief to them.
Your constant attempts to twist the meaning of carefully selected bursts of out of context quotes is exactly what Yeshua warned about in Matthew 5:19
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are (ἐστε) ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: The Greek word ἐστε is used 93 times in the New Testament. In every instance in regards to something that already exists and not something that will happen in the future. It means I exist, I am. Twist all you want but scripture does not lie.
Noted and understood. I really posted that to re-inforce your contention that baptism is a sign of something that already occurred. At least that’s what I understood you to mean.
Stop twisting the words of scripture. We get enough of that from Catholics.
Must submit to someone calling themselves Father???? Christ said we should not call church pastors or preachers Father. As near as I can tell about 90% dogma is man add own conditions to Christ teachings. Just like the Scribes and Pharisees {the man made Temple Government} had done in the Temple to enslave the Jews.
The Apostles did not put on long robes, they did not call themselves father or Priest, Pope is not mentioned, they didn't wear crowns etc, and parade themselves before the people. They were more akin to today's Evangelist going from town to town to the streets, to homes, etc.
What did Peter tell Cornelius when he bowed before him? Peter rebuked his bow & helped him back up and said "I am a mere human being like you". Example after example, passage after passage contradicts the RCC Dogma.
NOTHING we can ever do works wise will save us. It can't be done. IF SALVATION COULD BE EARNED BY LABOR OR CONDITIONS SET-FORTH BY MAN THEN CHRIST DIED IN VAIN. Grace isn't earned it is a FREE GIFT GIVEN FROM GOD TO ALL TO THOSE WHO ASK & RECEIVE JESUS CHRIST. Why does the RCC think it's Dogma supersedes Jesus Christ conditions for salvation? To put is so far out of reach none can obtain it perhaps? To have control over others perhaps?
SALVATION COMES BY GRACE. IT IS BY FAITH ALONE BELIEVING THAT CHRIST PAID OUR SIN DEBT FOR ALL TIME. HE CLEANSED US. NO NEED TO BURN MORE. NO MORE PURIFICATION NEEDED when we leave these earthly bodies. Not because we deserve it, not because we worked for it, but because GOD gave His only begotten Son so whosoever {meaning anyone} believes in Him in Faith shall not perish but have everlasting life. No one can separate us from Jesus Christ. Not the Pope, nor Priest, nor Preacher Smith of the Charismatics, nor Obama.
The thief on the cross hanging beside Jesus asked JESUS to "Remember me in your Kingdom". Christ replied "Today you are with me in paradise". Christ said that. He didn't say go in a booth and talk to Father Smith and have him forgive you. No the Bible says to go ALONE into a place and pray to The Father IN SECRET. How many more teachings and laws must be twisted into conditions and rituals that the Jews could not endure nor live up too thus GOD sent His Son to fulfill all righteousness that we may be saved? We are sinners made righteous only by The Shed Blood Of Jesus Christ and only Him Alone. Take off your chains of bondage from man. Christ has set you free from spiritual bondage.
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