Little known Mormon fact: Some of the handcarts used in the trek from Missouri to Utah had odometers on them.
Posted on 01/08/2015 5:33:17 AM PST by Gamecock
A doorstep encounter with missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) may allow only a brief moment to make a hopefully lasting impression, so we must weigh our words carefully. Too many Christians make the mistake of introducing peripheral topics that can sometimes move the discussion toward an agonizing dead end.
Many times Mormons are not familiar with their history or doctrines, allowing them sometimes to assume the Christian is either making something up or taking something out of context. But ask a Mormon, “If you were to die right now, do you have the assurance that all of your sins are forgiven?” The typical response is, inevitably, “I hope so,” “I think so,” or just plain, “No.” Why is this?
In Mormonism, salvation is defined in two unique ways. Tenth LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith explained, “Salvation is twofold: General—that which comes to all men irrespective of a belief (in this life) in Christ—and, Individual—that which man merits through his own acts through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.”1 General salvation, or resurrection from the dead, is known as salvation by grace and is provided to all people. It is synonymous with immortality since the resurrected person lives forever.
The goal of a faithful Latter-day Saint is to achieve individual salvation or “exaltation,” which does not come easily. Thomas S. Monson, Mormonism’s current prophet, taught, “It is the celestial glory which we seek. It is in the presence of God we desire to dwell. It is a forever family in which we want membership. Such blessings must be earned.”2 With this as a background, we can then proceed to remind them regarding what those requirements really entail.
The Impossible Gospel. Using just six verses from two of the Standard Works3 and by asking a few questions, it’s possible to show how futile Mormonism’s plan of salvation really is. Bear in mind that these questions are asked within a context that a Mormon will understand.
1 Nephi 3:7: “For I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”
Ask: Does this passage say that it’s possible to keep all of God’s commandments? How are you doing at this?
Alma 11:37: “And I say unto you again that he [God] cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.”
Ask: Do you struggle with sin? If so, doesn’t this tend to prove that you, as a Mormon, are still “in your sins” and are “unclean”? If you are, doesn’t this mean you are not saved?
Moroni 10:32: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you.”
Ask: Have you denied yourself of all ungodliness? If not, doesn’t this verse tend to prove that you have yet to receive the grace that will cleanse you of your sins? If you have not denied yourself of all ungodliness, when do you think you will do so?
D and C 25:15: “Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.”
Ask: How many commandments must you keep continually? Some? Most? All?4 If all, how are you doing at this?
D and C 58:43: “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.”
Ask: How many sins must you forsake?5 Have you forsaken all of your sins? If not, doesn’t that mean you have not truly repented?
D and C 1:31: “For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.”
Ask: In light of the answers you’ve given to the above questions, do you think God will overlook your sins?
Common Excuses. We like to utilize a book written by twelfth LDS President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) called The Miracle of Forgiveness. This popular work, which has been in continuous print since 1969, has even been recommended for use by two general authorities speaking at General Conferences.6
Kimball insisted that “one of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.”7 Stating that “forgiveness (is) cancelled on reversion to sin,” he wrote, “Those who feel that they can sin and be forgiven and then return to sin and be forgiven again and again must straighten out their thinking. Each previously forgiven sin is added to the new one and the whole gets to be a heavy load.”8 Kimball said that “God would never require anything from his children which was not for their benefit and which was not attainable. Perfection therefore is an achievable goal.”9
With these quotes in mind, consider several common excuses used by many Latter-day Saints and the response to such objections from this Mormon president.
“This is why we have repentance.” Spencer Kimball utilized D and C 58:43 when he wrote, “There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of sin. Providing that a person discontinues his sin with the right motives—because of a growing consciousness of the gravity of the sin and a willingness to comply with the laws of the Lord—he is genuinely repenting….In other words, it is not real repentance until one has abandoned the error of his way and started on a new path.”10 He later added, “The Lord cannot save men in their sins but only from their sins, and that only when they have shown true repentance.”11 The problem, of course, is that most Mormons realize they have not met such a demanding requirement; hence, they have not “truly repented” in the first place.
“But I’m trying” and “I’m doing the best I can.” Many Mormons like to believe that their honest efforts to do the right thing are enough to achieve forgiveness. Kimball did not think so. He wrote, “Nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin. To try with a weakness of attitude and effort is to assure failure in the sense of Satan’s strong counteracting efforts. What is needed is resolute action.”12 He then related a story about a military officer who ordered a soldier to deliver a message. This officer became irritated when the soldier said he would try to carry out the order, even if it meant death. To this the officer replied, “I don’t want you to die, and I don’t want you merely to do the best you can, and I don’t want you to try. Now, the request is a reasonable one….Now get out of here and accomplish your mission.”13 Kimball concluded, “To ‘try’ is weak. To ‘do the best I can’ is not strong. We must always do better than we can.”14 Remind the Mormon that whenever a person uses the word “try,” it is almost always within the context of failure. For example, a person who climbs a hill will say he climbed the hill. He doesn’t say he “tried” to climb the hill.
The Freedom Found in Christ. The Bible contradicts the notion that we can earn God’s forgiveness. Grace by definition is unmerited and mercy by definition is undeserved. For example, Romans 3:28 says a person “is justified by faith without the deeds of the law,” while Galatians 2:16 adds that “by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
It is important to stress that we are not minimizing the role of good works. While justification comes by grace through faith and not by works, Ephesians 2:10 clearly states that believers were created for good works. Our works are the evidence of our faith. When we realize that salvation comes through what Christ did on the cross, it no longer is about what we do but rather what He did. Unfortunately, Mormonism places an oppressive burden squarely on the backs of the LDS people.
Forgiveness of sins provides the Christian peace that passes all understanding. By using the approach we’ve presented here, you will be challenging the Mormon to explain why Christians should surrender their assurance of forgiveness for something that the Mormons only wish they had. —Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson
Bill McKeever is the founder of Mormonism Research Ministry (www.mrm.org), which he founded in 1979.
Eric Johnson is an MRM research associate. Together they coauthored Mormonism 101 (Baker, 2000).
NOTES 1.Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:134 (Salt Lake City: Publishers Press, 1956). Emphasis in original.
2.“An Invitation to Exaltation,” Ensign, May 1988, 56.
3.The King James Version of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants comprise written scripture to Mormons.
4.According to the 1997 church manual Teachings of Presidents of The Church: Brigham Young, “Joseph also told us that the Savior requires strict obedience to all the commandments, ordinances and laws pertaining to his kingdom, and that if we would do this we should be made partakers of all the blessings promised in his Gospel,” 37–38.
5.Former president Harold B. Lee wrote, “In one sentence, repentance means turning from that which we have done wrong in the sight of the Lord and never repeating that mistake again. Then we can have the miracle of forgiveness.” Harold B. Lee, Ye Are the Light of the World: Selected Sermons and Writings of Harold B. Lee (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974), 321.
6.General Conferences are official gatherings held in Salt Lake City in the spring and fall each year. See Seventy Richard L. Evans, Conference Report, April 1970, 16; Apostle Richard G. Scott, Ensign, November 2004, 16.
7.Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1969), 206–7.
8.Ibid., 169, 170.
9.Ibid., 209.
10.Ibid., 163.
11.Ibid., 166, emphasis in original.
12.Ibid., 164, emphasis in original.
13.Ibid.
14.Ibid., 165.
Of course temptation is not sin.
But avoiding it makes it easier to avoid sin.
Freely available data on the internet.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/878209/Utah-County-is-hotbed-for-white-collar-crimes.html?pg=all
Where’d the concept of free will come from? Because it’s sure not found in Scripture.
Is God obligated to give man free reign to run his life as he chooses?
God has two claims of ownership on man.
One is as his Creator, and the other as his Redeemer.
The person who has surrendered his life to God is not his own any more. He was bought with a price and now belongs to God. He has transferred ownership of himself to the RIGHTFUL owner, God, instead of usurping that.
And there is no free will, really. It’s not found anywhere in Scripture. On the contrary, according to Scripture, we are all sold as slaves to sin by our choice to sin, or we are slaves to God, when He redeems us.
People like to think that they are free and independent entities, autonomous individuals, but nothing is further from the truth. Without God’s sustaining us, even the unbeliever, we could not even draw our next breath.
There is no avoiding temptation.
There is avoiding situations where sin is easier to indulge in, but temptation comes in many ways and forms. The flesh provides plenty of it, and where the flesh doesn’t, the Devil does.
Little known Mormon fact: Some of the handcarts used in the trek from Missouri to Utah had odometers on them.
THAT's when it's FUN!
Interesting, thanks.
One of my dear departed pastors once said:
You can't keep a bird from landing in your hair; but you don't have to let her build a nest there!
Genesis is not part of Scripture?
Adam and Eve had a choice of obeying God's command to not eat from a particular tree, or not.
They chose to eat.
It didn't end well for them.
Yes, ADAM and EVE DID have that choice.
We don't.
We were not created sinless but were born into sin, with a sin nature that makes us slaves to sin.
It's funny that the RCC should teach the concept of *original sin* and then claim we have free will.
Adam and Eve had a choice of obeying God's command to not eat from a particular tree, or not.
It didn't end well for the whole human race and all of creation. Sin entered the world and the corruption that goes along with it.
We cannot escape sin. We have no free will.
you want to compare the prefallen staTe of man to our condition today?
Three people had free will. And and Eve, before the fall. Jesus was the other.
We are slaves to sin.
We have no choice in resisting temptation or yielding to it?
Charged by the mile, did they?
The natural man has nothing within him to give himself the ability to resist temptation.
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
Romans 6:15-23 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Nope.
If you can resist sin you don’t need Jesus.
We watched The Godmakers back in the mid 80’s at a friend’s house. Afterwared, one of the women said, “Now I know why my neighbor killed herself.” The neighbor was a in a mormon marriage and her husband divorced her.
And what are the proper fruits, according to the Bible, of that faith that brings Eternal Life?
Grace is unique to Christianity and not something to be witnessed in man-made religion. The saved are heirs. Sometimes a father is not very pleased with his children, but he doesn’t write them out of the will.
This knowledge frees us to to good, not to ensure our salvation, but to please our Father in heaven.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.