Posted on 12/14/2014 5:26:28 PM PST by ebb tide
I have been assured, over and over again, sometimes condescendingly and sometimes not, that the Kasper Proposal is a dead letter.
First it was Cardinal Muller's letter in L'Osservatore Romano. Then it was some random papal comment affirming marital indissolubility (which ignored the fact Cardinal Kasper swearsies he's all about keeping marriages intact). Then, most recently, it was the supposed door-slamming vote at the end of the Synod, which asserted that the matter was--this time for sure, how could you ever doubt it?--done. Over. Locked into a safe, wrapped in chains and dumped square in into Challenger Deep, where it could never be seen again, thanks to our Papal Guarantee of Unassailable Orthodoxy. Take that, Huns!
Well, I was skeptical about that. Very much so.
And it appears my skepticism was warranted. Like the villain in a bad horror movie, the damned thing keeps rising from assured death to menace the protagonists again. Behold Question 38, straight from the Pope's handpicked secretary at the Vatican:
38. With regard to the divorced and remarried, pastoral practice concerning the sacraments needs to be further studied, including assessment of the Orthodox practice and taking into account “the distinction between an objective sinful situation and extenuating circumstances” (n. 52). What are the prospects in such a case? What is possible? What suggestions can be offered to resolve forms of undue or unnecessary impediments?
So much for the matter being closed, shut, finito. There's a wake-up call, for those so inclined to grab the receiver.
And then there's the Pope's words, just this week, offered in the Time-Honored Magisterium of Newspaper Interviews:
[Q:] In the case of divorcees who have remarried, we posed the question, what do we do with them? What door can we allow them to open? This was a pastoral concern: will we allow them to go to Communion?
[A:] Communion alone is no solution. The solution is integration. They have not been excommunicated, true. But they cannot be godfathers to any child being baptized, mass readings are not for divorcees, they cannot give communion, they cannot teach Sunday school, there are about seven things that they cannot do, I have the list over there. Come on! If I disclose any of this it will seem that they have been excommunicated in fact!
Thus, let us open the doors a bit more. Why cant they be godfathers and godmothers? "No, no, no, what testimony will they be giving their godson?" The testimony of a man and a woman saying "my dear, I made a mistake, I was wrong here, but I believe our Lord loves me, I want to follow God, I was not defeated by sin, I want to move on."
Anything more Christian than that? And what if one of the political crooks among us, corrupt people, ate chosen to be somebody´s godfather. If they are properly wedded by the Church, would we accept them? What kind of testimony will they give to their godson? A testimony of corruption?
Things need to change, our standards need to change.
"Communion alone is no solution." That's an...interesting formulation. There are other problems with the interview, too, as someone less biased on the topic than I am has noted. This one is particularly insightful, and warrants a careful read.
Those of you who are Anglicans will have seen this movie before: dialogue does not end until the proper result is reached. Then it becomes the Laws of the Medes and Persians, hater.
Given what the Vatican just issued, the most recent interview shows the Pontiff's mind quite clearly (not that it was particularly opaque before). Throw that in with the papal power-invoking rhetoric in the wildly-overpraised speech he gave at the conclusion of the 2014 Synod (reinforced by more explicit authority to depose), and I think it's more likely than not that he forces through some variation on the Kasper proposal in 2015.
Welcome to horribly interesting times.
Why do you blame it all on Kasper?
It’s Francis who keeps bringing the subject back up for more “votes”.
I hope you're kidding. This Pope is floating the idea of giving Holy Communion to those who persist in remaining a state of mortal sin.
Of course, it's a big issue!
Same reason Peter and Paul did, they wanted to save their fellowmen's souls.
Christ never instituted *sacraments*, not as they are defined in the CCC.
And if the divorce was against their will (because of no fault) are they forced into a single existence for the rest of their lives?communion.
The Catholic church does not claim that taking the Eucharist is necessary for salvation....very helpful, of course, but not a requirement.
as for your second point concerning a single existence...if the first marriage was valid and cannot be annulled, the person is still married because a marriage is a lifetime (of one or either partner) commitment ...See, Catholics believe in obeying all the rules, not just the ones that we agree with...
There are no debits in my account at all.
Colossians 2:8-15 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
What is this "Law" that nobody can obey? Marital fidelity?
Gotta watch that projection there....
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Then you answered your own question to me.
Provide the references.
I’m not doing your work for you.
I gave you my reference.
No. In my opinion you are doing the opposite.
Jesus was not eligible to cast first stone unless he was an eyewitness.
I don’t get the big deal. If the Pope wants to declare that divorced people can engage in Communion, then doesn’t his wish make it all good? After all, if the Pope can declare the absolute sinlessness of Mary, and now it is indisputable doctrine, why can’t he do the same about this situation? I thought that was a big reason why Roman Catholics were part of the team, to not have to worry about these details. Just do whatever you are told, and don’t worry about checking it against the Scripture.
Catholics have ALWAYS been able to receive communion if divorced as
long as they are NOT remarried or living with a different partner!!!!!
Actually, it’s both/and, not either or. Our Lord specifically told the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and to “do this (i.e., the Eucharist) in memory of me”.
My point is the status quo is not a big issue. Of course a change would be a big issue because, as I said in my prior email, I don’t see how it would not be a change of doctrine.
We won’t know until the end what the Pope will do. Just maybe the Holy Spirit will in the end protect the Magisterium from error. I don’t think it is proper to write off the Pope too early, given his position in the Church.
The Pope cannot simply declare a part of the deposit of faith not a part of the deposit of faith. He can’t simply declare that the Lord was wrong in calling divorce and remarriage adultery or that someone in mortal sin is not partaking of communion to their condemnation. That would be a reversal. The sinlessness of Mary is not a reversal or incompatible with Scripture or Tradition.
We'll take your word for it.
Nevertheless, we have a judgement to face and it won't be your call....and it's going to be based on....*gasp*.....works!! Works, which were inspired by faith and love but works, nonetheless.
The mistake that Protestants always make is in projecting their anti-Catholicism onto Paul as if he was writing specifically for a group of people who would not appear for another millenium and a half in the middle of the 16th century. He wasn't. He was writing to nascent Christian communities and contrasting the Gospel of Christ with the old Jewish law. That is all!
Paul was most definitely not saying that all one needs to get into heaven is a gut feeling that one is saved. It goes much further than that. The same Paul also tells us about love and explains how love is greater than faith. In fact, he says that if one has faith to move mountains but has not love, then one is nothing!
"And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." 1 Corinthians 13:2
What do think about that? Paul says that faith without love is useless!!
This is important because it is love that necessarily leads us to perform works! This is illustrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan where it was neither the priest nor the Levite who were pleasing to God but the man who performed a work and bound up the wounds of the man who had been robbed and so Jesus tells us that we are to do likewise.
So how do we know that we'll be judged on this?
Jesus clearly tells us.....in Matthew's Gospel.
"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 7:21
Then of course, there is Jesus' own account of the Last Judgment:
Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. Matthew 25: 24-40
"As long as you did it to one of these least of my brethren, you did it to me....." what else is that but works??
So, the love of which St. Paul speaks, leads us to perform the works of which Jesus speaks, on which our judgment will be based.
Finally, all of this helps to explain one of the most famous quotes in Scripture, one much beloved by Protestants....the famous words of James that.."faith without works is dead" James 2: 26
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