Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[Mark17]

They are both on Earth and in Heaven. Same as with Paul, who also wrote "called to be saints" on many occasions. I ask living people to pray for me as well. However, "the continual prayer of a just man availeth much" (James 5:16), and those tend to be canonized saints of the Holy Catholic Church. Coincidence? I think not.

I see word games are being played again. Folks, after all is said and done, I have said it a thousand times, I will say it again. I do not care about the word games, the misinterpretations, pre trib, post trib, spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues, the physical half brothers and sisters of Jesus, none of it. I don't care. Just tell me what your plan of salvation is. If you don't get that right, it does not matter a hill of beans what else you may or may not have right.

Ann, what is your plan of salvation? Make it simple.

[annalex]

I'd prefer "favor" or "kindness" in as many cases as possible

To have "favor" everywhere would be the tin sound of Joel Osteen speech. At least what you "prefer" seems to be consistent.

But curiously, the Protestant translations have "favor" when talking about grace in Mary, but switch to "grace" when the need to fool the reader went away. Hence "sleaze"; that is exactly what it is.

[terycarl]

Now, just imagine if the Roman church took it upon itself to edit Scripture every time they added to their beliefs over the past millennia. Instead of just making up “traditions”, pretend they instead edited Scripture to support their changing beliefs.

this, ladies and gentlemen, was posted by a protestant....

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“The larger context does not negate the fact that the body and blood of Jesus is mentioned right next to the need to “discern the body”. “

Paul’s argument is straight forward.

The Lord’s Supper reflects the Body & Blood of Christ. To fail to examine oneself includes examining how we treat other believers in the Body of Christ.

Paul corrects the for their failures to treat others in the Body of Christ the way they should. He does this before the sub-point of the Lord’s supper and he continues it after the sub-point of the Lord’s Supper.

[Syncro]

...they're wanting to promote this [Mary as "Co-Redemtrix] to be an "official" dogma of the church! They are petitioning the pope to make this happen now.

Give it time and Mary will soon replace her Son as the one providing salvation.

Interesting because what I found the other day:

Is Pope Francis Preparing To Declare The ‘Virgin’ Mary To Be 4th Part Of The Trinity?

NTEB News Desk | September 15, 2014

Francis says that our hope is not Jesus, but Mary and Mother Church

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” Jeremiah 7:18

Even though they lie and say that they are only “venerating” her, the Roman Catholic Church has since the middle 1800’s worshipped Mary from the New Testament. They create idols of her, call her the Queen of Heaven, ascribe all sorts of miracles to her statues and bow down to her in worship. As someone who was raised in the Catholic Church and trained by Jesuits, I can testify that this 100% true. But Pope Francis this past weekend took Mary worship, a sin, to staggering new heights.

Francis, speaking to mark the occasion of the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows in Casa Santa Marta, said the following:

“And this is our hope. We are not orphans, we have Mothers: Mother Mary. But the Church is Mother and the Mother Church is anointed when it takes the same path of Jesus and Mary: the path of obedience, the path of suffering, and when she has that attitude of continually learning the path of the Lord. These two women – Mary and the Church – carry on the hope that is Christ, they give us Christ, they bring forth Christ in us. Without Mary, there would be no Jesus Christ; without the Church, we cannot go forward“.

Jesus has been demoted to third place behind ‘mother’ Mary and the ‘Holy Mother Church’, the Roman Catholic Church. The bible says, however that the “blessed hope” of the Christian is “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Scripture never mentions Mary one time as being the hope of anyone or anything. But if you’re a Catholic Francis says that “ today we can go forward with a hope: the hope that our Mother Mary, steadfast at the Cross, and our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church, give us.“

The position and title that Pope Francis has bestowed on Mary is, by his own words, equal or greater than that of the 2nd part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ. And though he has yet to use the words, he has effectually already placed her status firmly at the Godhead level.

More at the link, clickable in the title.

[annalex]

The cloths were used miraculously by God ---to provide healings, etc. There is no evidence the cloths themselves were "venerated".

Right. That is what relics are for, and that is why they are venerated.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

The passage does not say the saved the items, kissed them, adored them, etc... Or that they were ever used again.

[annalex]

The catholic maintains you have to do works to keep your salvation.

Yes. You have to practice self-denial every day so long as you live. The day you say "I did enough" is the day your soul perishes.

[terycarl]

it's gotta be tough to be a catholic....there is sooooo much material you have to keep up with. Being a Protestant is easier....all you need is the Word.

and you get to interpret it any way that you choose

[annalex]

Why do you think she is a saint?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“this, ladies and gentlemen, was posted by a protestant....”

Actually, it was not posted by a Protestant. If it had been, it was still a great explanation of the problem of dating the Didache.

[annalex]

Why don't we ever see catholics asking Jesus for help?

Of course we do. "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me a sinner". The topic is saints, so I show you how to pray to saints.

[annalex]

I don’t see any “scriptural argument”

[annalex]

did He not mean everyone?

Apparently not, because right next to that Psalm that St. Paul quotes there is this:

A psalm of David. Lord, who shall dwell in thy tabernacle? or who shall rest in thy holy hill? He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice: He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours. In his sight the malignant is brought to nothing: but he glorifieth them that fear the Lord. He that sweareth to his neighbour, and deceiveth not; He that hath not put out his money to usury, nor taken bribes against the innocent: He that doth these things shall not be moved for ever. (Psalm 14, your numbering may vary)

[Syncro]

...the image of The Sacred Heart

Which One [<--------- That's a link] do you have?

[caww]

Mary cannot hear your prayer....In all of scripture that teaches, talks of, or gives examples of prayer, Mary is never mentioned as part of the process.

We know this because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent. ....Mary is none of the above.

The Holy Spirit, not Mary, is THE Sovereign distributer of all things, this includes Grace, faith, wisdom, peace, understanding, etc..

Everything that the Catholic church tells you can be achieved through prayer to Mary (which is idolatry) is in fact the ministry of the Holy Spirit,... not Mary.

The Holy Spirit makes intercession for us, not Mary.

Romans 8:26-27 confirms to us clearly.....” Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but.. ‘the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us’... with groanings which cannot be uttered..... Now He who searches the hearts knows what ‘the mind of the Spirit is’, because He makes intercession for the saints ‘according to the will of God’.”

Furthermore....The only acceptable prayers are through Christ (in His name not mary’s).

We read in John 14:13-14...” And whatever you ask.. ‘in My name’,... that I will do, that ‘the Father may be glorified in the Son’ If you ask anything ‘In My name’, I will do it. .....(it does not say in Mary’s name, nor that she has any thing to do with the prayer petitions or answers between Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father...)

and further....Jesus says in Matthew 6:5-13... in teaching us how to pray and giving us ‘an example’, says we are to pray ‘to the Father’,... NOT using vain repetitions..... (in His teaching and example nowhere is Mary mentioned.)

.... “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. .... And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. ...... “Therefore..... do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him..... In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory
forever. ....Amen

[annalex]

Acts 19:12 says absolutely nothing about veneration

Sure it does, this is how relics are venerated today. They have healing power.

[annalex]

multiple proven translation errors

The fact remains that West Europe wouldn't be the same without the Vulgate.

[annalex]

being incorporated into Christ

Good answer, thank you.

[annalex]

Not expanding what she said

Of course He is expanding. The woman venerated the physical motherhood of Mary. He broadened it into hearing and keeping the Word, -- that is Him, -- not only physically but also in discipleship.